Can we talk about Epson Green?

[ColoPrinthead]

I haven't had green ink at any of my other positions before the one I currently have and it seems to be throwing me a curve. I've started to view dealing with the green ink like I do trying to print neutrals using a full ink set. I have two of the GS6000s and they seem to be switching back and forth each week with one printing more a more saturated green than the other. Always with clear heads so it's not shouldn't be a mechanical issue.

After I dialed in new numbers to produce a certain green pantone last week I found that one printer required a mix with 10% more green than the other (Onyx). In the past my color adjustments/mixes/replacements seem to keep/work for at least a month, but today I'm finding that the newer of the GSs has decided it didn't want to produce the same color with the same values that it did 2 days ago. I thought it might have been a file or RIP issue but after some troubleshooting it's clearly not. I don't have a CMS but my environment/temperature is more consistent than it has ever been.

I would love it if someone could offer some insight into the inks I'm dealing with or working with green ink in general.

 

[noregrets]

I have found my green to be very inconsistent too, what I do now is run a gutter strip down the side to check the colours and I have even tried shaking the cartridge up a bit as I think the ink might be settling in there.

Do you find that your nozzle test prints vary in intensity of the green?

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Yes from printer to printer the nozzle test green changes as well as saturation variation. At first I thought it might have been because of a lack of green usage, but I've been producing a large long run project the last 3 months that uses has a lot of green in the design. I do print with 1/4" gutters 95% of the time. I have tried shaking the cartridges to see if it changes but am unable to tell as I'm not shaking whats in the line and it takes awhile to flow through.

I'm sorry you have the same issue, but its good to know I'm not alone. I may have to contact Epson and see if they will admit that this happens and talk to me about it. I wonder how the greens work for people with color management.

 

[rfulford]

If you don't use it, you lose it.

edit: This post turned out long so here is the summary from the bottom.

Onyx try's very hard not lay down a lot of green ink. It is possible that combined with the known issues of green ink, you may be getting erratic behavior.

Regarding the epsons: I am approaching 3 years with my two Epsons. Initially, I was running the the provided ColorBurst Rip. Now, I am currently running Color Gate. Immediately upon switching to ColorGate, The green in the older machine was not firing and I noticed the color of the green in the ColorGate linearization looked different. Long story short, the version of ColorBurst I was using was bugged and not using green at all when I linearized an made profiles, it used Orange ok but used Cyan and Yellow instead of the green ink. Without use, the green channel on the printer just died. Epson takes issues with green ink very seriously. They replaced the head on the first printer for free under warranty. Later I had a horrible head strike and lost over 3/4 of every nozzle. After a head wash and a lot of cleaning I was able to recover all but the some of the green. Again, Epson replaced the head for free even though I took full responsibility and was out of warranty.

Regarding Onyx: I just saw this behavior last week at another location with 2 GS6000s being ran by Onyx. Now that I am back home, I can say without a doubt that they were both running weak greens. I was creating profiles and the first thing I noticed was that target linearization for green was a much lower ramp than the others. Less than half the other colors easily. Furthermore, I also noticed that there is a default ink restriction in Onyx for "Solvent Inkjet" or something. That particular ink restriction sets both the orange and green down to a really low number. Its around 30%. What I am trying to get at is that Onyx try's very hard not lay down a lot of green ink. It is possible that combined with the known issues of green ink, you may be getting erratic behavior.

 

[noregrets]

Not that this helps, but it is interesting to see Epson is not using Green in its new line up of solvent printers..... maybe says something eh!

 

[mudmedia]

I dont think its an epson issue..I think its a rip issue I am going to be switching possibly to colorburst from onyx.

 

[ProWraps]

take two digi printers side by side, brand new even, print the same thing on both. hold up to each other... wont match.

trust me i know. we always run two printers for redundancy and output. they never print the same.

mutohs, and hp's here for our experience/s. we ALWAYS print one full job on the same printer. never mix and match.

 

[mudmedia]

Pro with your two printers do you or would you lets say print a job on your mutoh and then later down the road print the job on the hp? As long as both are completely printed by one printer?

 

[ProWraps]

yes. mutohs are over. using hp's now.

we have to deal with all the repairs from cars getting in accidents that were originally printed on the mutohs, now having to have the fixes printed on the hps.

we have so many wrapped vehicles on the road, we consistantly have 2-5 cars being repaired from accidents at any given time, all over the US.

 

[mudmedia]

Whats the best way you have found to keep the 2 even close? Eye1 device? and calibrate the two side by side? I understand the two printers side by side even brand new wont print the same and by no means do I mean to hijack this post at all but any info may help the OP...BUT how do you keep two diff manufacture printers or heck even the same manufactured printers to where when accidents and stuff occur it is controllable?

 

[ProWraps]

you dont. thats why you run the same job on the same printer.

different material rolls, different ink cartridges, a vent blowing closer to one printer, etc.

its the nature of the digi beast.

 

[Rooster]

Not that this helps, but it is interesting to see Epson is not using Green in its new line up of solvent printers..... maybe says something eh!

The green part of the CMYK gamut is much stronger than the Orange. They have added a gray in place of green that will make it much easier to print neutral gray and black and white images.

I think it's a smart trade off for the majority of the industry that is still reluctant to use color management.

 

[ColoPrinthead]

Just talked to Epson service and brought up the green issues I've been having. I was told I might need to do a headwash (how convenient, that would mean I have to buy consumables) and that it might be because I'm not using enough. Too bad I've been running gutters and printing a project that has heavy green usage for 3 months now and have watched the fluctuations. Support assured me that their cyan and yellow made a great green so that is why the G ink isn't used much. These people are supposed to professional?

Just wanted to clarify I wasn't talking about having the two printers match (I make that happen at the RIP), I was talking about the inconsistency of the appearance of green on one printer. The saturation is noticeably different in the gutter and I have seen a sickening range of change in color printing the same images which have green for several months (think from lime green to an almost gold beige nastiness).

 

[HulkSmash]

Just talked to Epson service and brought up the green issues I've been having. I was told I might need to do a headwash (how convenient, that would mean I have to buy consumables) and that it might be because I'm not using enough. Too bad I've been running gutters and printing a project that has heavy green usage for 3 months now and have watched the fluctuations. Support assured me that their cyan and yellow made a great green so that is why the G ink isn't used much. These people are supposed to professional?

Just wanted to clarify I wasn't talking about having the two printers match (I make that happen at the RIP), I was talking about the inconsistency of the appearance of green on one printer. The saturation is noticeably different in the gutter and I have seen a sickening range of change in color printing the same images which have green for several months (think from lime green to an almost gold beige nastiness).

It has to do with your environment. Do you have a climate controlled print room?

 

[ColoPrinthead]

I have been around enough machines to know that if its environmental that these inks are really super temperamental. I had some idiots raise a fuss and concern about the room I operate in have had to keep it sealed and add portable cooling unit as result for 2 months now; it keeps the room fairly regulated. I will admit I don't have devices to measure humidity and temp from one side of the room to the other like I have when I've had color management in the past, but this room is a lot more stable than the places that I did where humidity ranged 8% and temp 5 degrees from one side of the room to the other (about 10x15 in the past, about 10x30 now).

 

[boxerbay]

this info is from an epson tech:

check the expiration date on the ink cartridge(s). expired inks go bad and settle.

upgrade your colorburst for free from colorburst website. http://www.colorburstrip.com/updates.html

the newer version addresses green usage. also update your gs firmware.

 

[signswi]

take two digi printers side by side, brand new even, print the same thing on both. hold up to each other... wont match.

trust me i know. we always run two printers for redundancy and output. they never print the same.

mutohs, and hp's here for our experience/s. we ALWAYS print one full job on the same printer. never mix and match.

Look into converting your shop to a G7 color workflow. Best way to get consistent color across multiple machines.