Caution: Triangle Ink Users

[signs20]

While searching for durability info for third-party inks, we checked out the Durability Warranty for Triangle inks. You can find it here: http://www.triangleinx.com/downloads/Durability_Triangle.pdf

In particular, check out the restrictions for Zone 2 (US) and the Warranty Table. Some printers, like HP 9000, etc. are rated for 3 years. But, Mimaki and Roland printers (with Epson printheads) are only rated for 1 year (before restrictions). Also, check out the hoops that you need to jump thru to even apply for warranty problems.

This may be a problem for people doing vehicle wraps. Customers who are paying $2,000 - $5,000 for a wrap are likely to be upset if their wrap starts fading in a couple of years. Mimaki and Roland warrant their inks for 3 years and our experience using them on wraps with 3M180 and 8519 is that they have held up very well for 4-5 years. We are still looking for comparable performance from third-party inks.

 

[HulkSmash]

Or you could just buy stock inks? trying to save money now, will cost you more later.

 

[cdiesel]

We've been on Triangle MLD for five years.. can't get much harsher climate than here. No problems.

 

[artbot]

there may be more of a difference between legal departments vs. laboratory results.

it's strange that wilhelm research only seems to test water based inks... ignoring the zillions of gallons and millions of square feet of solvent printed material out there.

here's one link but they are testing a gs6000 (because the only printer manufacturer in the world is epson). but it's under glass? uhhh.... no.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/GS6000.html

 

[signs20]

Why?

The warranty for Arizona is 3 months. The question is... WHY?

Most of the printers out there are Roland, Mimaki or Mutoh - why did they cut the warranty from 3 years to less than 1 year?

Does this show confidence in their products? We don't know of anyone with such restrictive conditions on the support of their products.

Check out Nazdar, Marabu, 2020, etc. as well as Mimaki and Roland.

We routinely check out our products in the field for durability. If there is a problem, we want to be able to advise our customers about what to expect before we take their money.

 

[cdiesel]

It's obviously because of our harsh sunlight and acid dew/rain. Like art said, there's a big difference between what products will do and what companies will guarantee them to do. The vinyl manufacturers offer between 40 & 60% of their normal warranty here.

Like I said, five years of heavy use without any problems.

I'm actually much more comfortable with a company that has a more conservative approach.

 

[artbot]

or possibly they've all found a much much cheaper way to manufacture ink. the only drawback is the longevity suffers. thus the reduction. all industries have standardized testing facilities (glue, coatings, hardware). yet solvent has no standardization.

 

[signs20]

Testing

Most manufacturers of products for sign making test their products using a Weatherometer or something equivalent. This device provides accelerated testing using intense UV and salt and fresh water spray. In 750 hours or so, several years of exposure can be simulated. Of course, real exposure data would be better, but most manufacturers don't want to wait 5 years to publish results, so Weatherometer data is generally the basis of their confidence.

Ink manufacturers have this data. Most media manufacturers also have it. We have seen some of it. This type of testing is far better than anecdotal comments. Triangle has cut the warranty for their ink with Epson printheads for some reason - what is it? Why do they warrant their ink in a HP9000 for 3 years, but only 1 year for Mimaki, Roland and Mutoh?

Worth looking into.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

When I used Triangle MLD I had problems with banners totally fading out in one to two years time. No problems so far on Solaris. I've been using them about a year and a half.

Triangle was nothing but problems for me. I'm shocked when I see people say that have had no problems, etc. It was a daily battle for us to get the printer to properly print.

 

[cdiesel]

Like I've told many before.. bulk (and especially hotter solvents) are not for everybody. They require more maintenance, but the cost savings outweigh this (at least for us). We run the pizz out of our Rolands.. put 7500sf through one of them the past few days. Again, no problems in print quality or printer function.

I can only speculate as to why Triangle has a short warranty for some regions (although I will ask the next time I talk to them), but we average between 20 and 30 liters per month, and have real-world experience with no problems.

 

[signs20]

The Real Issue...

Print quality and printer function aren't the issue here.

The issue is UV durability and this is a major issue. For Mimaki, Roland and Mutoh, "some regions" includes most of the US (1 year) and a lot of the South (3 months). This is the shortest warranty that we have seen. If they felt that their inks would last longer, they could give an "expected durability" or some other indication of a longer useful life of images made with their inks.

Ink warranties are useless anyway - all they warrant is that they will give you some more ink if the image fades. So why make it so difficult? Useful information would be stating an expected delta e shift of CYMK inks vs exposure time. The real question is why the reduction from 3 years to 1 year for Mimaki, Roland and Mutoh versus the rest?

There may be more to this than meets the eye

 

[signswi]

No real world problems here. Haven't seen fading on banners printed with Triangle and most everything else we laminate. I don't know many shops that support banners past a year anyway.

 

[MikePro]

hogwash

 

[mark in tx]

Been using Triangle inks for 5 years now. No problems with fading.

When I used Triangle MLD I had problems with banners totally fading out in one to two years time.

If the fabric of the banner holds up more than 6 months, count yourself ahead of the game. Banners are supposed to be temporary signage.

 

[HulkSmash]

Been using Triangle inks for 5 years now. No problems with fading.



If the fabric of the banner holds up more than 6 months, count yourself ahead of the game. Banners are supposed to be temporary signage.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

we have banners that have been out in the field for over 7 years, and they're doing just fine.



I guess if you use 10 oz and just tape hem you might have a problem.. but banners last long for us.

 

[MikePro]

i hate 10oz!!!!

I use AT LEAST 13oz, tape the hem, and i've got banners still out in the field 6 years later.

 

[mark in tx]

I use 13 oz material.

I have had people bring in a banner that were older and all they needed was some cleaning.

 

[boxerbay]

there may be more of a difference between legal departments vs. laboratory results.

it's strange that wilhelm research only seems to test water based inks... ignoring the zillions of gallons and millions of square feet of solvent printed material out there.

here's one link but they are testing a gs6000 (because the only printer manufacturer in the world is epson). but it's under glass? uhhh.... no.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/GS6000.html

You have to look at the third rating 91 years (displayed prints not framed bare bulb)(5) - then scroll down to (5) where it explains the methodology.

 

[signs20]

Ink Concern

Customers don't have the same expectations of durability for banners as they do for vehicle wraps and signs and other expensive stuff. We don't laminate banners, but we do laminate wraps and signs, particularly 4x8s, etc.

Back to the focus: Why does Triangle cut the warranty for Mimaki, Roland and Mutoh to 1 year (3-9 months in the US), but they offer 3 years on many other printers including HP (solvent). Check out their warranty statements. Artbot could be right about reformulation. Another concern: some distributors sell ink made in China and other countries. What is the performance of these inks? Have they been published?

Sign companies are ultimately responsible for the materials that they use and customers will (rightfully) hold us responsible if our products don't hold up well.