CET hybrid vs flatbed

[crystalcoastgraphics]

We are really hopefully getting closer to purchasing a new UV printer, and have pretty much decided on CET. Now the biggest question is which one! I can see the advantages of each, but I know it seems that more people have a true flatbed over the hybrids. It sounds really tempting though for the hybrid 1000 HL, and open up being able to print up to 10' banner in house. We do not do many that wide, and currently just outsource over 60". Is there a big advantage to the flatbed? Looking at the 500Q in that direction, probably 5x10. Any suggestions would be great!

 

[synergy_jim]

we went true flatbed because we print on a ton of irregular materials. If you are simply doing sheets, go hybrid. I for one like being able to print a door or ceiling tiles. You need the true flatbed for that....

 

[synergy_jim]

height and I cant imagine how a belt feed mechanism would hold a door or ceiling tile down. I've used a vutek with belt feed and there is no way you could ever print them on there....

 

[synergy_jim]

the vutek has a vaccum system as well. we had a terrible time running small irregular parts on it. they almost always move when they start to feed through the printer.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

I know the head height difference. That really wasn't to big of a concern of ours. But I do understand about the belt system not holding down as much, like even if you have a piece of warped mdo. We don't have experience with either, but like you said I would imagine flatbeds would suck more anything flat and securely

 

[synergy_jim]

full sheets = hybrid

small parts or irregular parts = true flatbed

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Running small/odd stuff isn't too bad on the hybrid actually, I've had very few problems with it. We've been printing a bunch of pre-stretched canvas (gallery-wrap) prints lately on cheap-o Hobby Lobby frames and once you figure it out they stay put just fine. We've actually found on a lot of things, especially small stuff, a little masking tape looped on the back is all you need. On the canvas prints for instance we just do that and run without the vacuum on, works fine.

That said, if you're wanting to print wide banners, I'm not sure I'd go this route. We have a heck of a time running 8' material on our 500H. We make it work, but it's not the easiest to load and you get a lot of "smileys" on the material feeding onto the belt. Narrower rolls are fine, it's full-width stuff that fights us. Granted, I've not brought the issue up to CET yet so it may be something we're doing terribly wrong, but I've heard this isn't an uncommon problem on any hybrid or belt-fed printer like this, including Vutek.

Other than that we have no complaints with the hybrid. If you intend to run mostly standard 4x8 sheets you'll be fine.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

No hijacking issue here Pat!! I'm in the same boat, just wanting to make sure I purchase the best machine for our use, and looking at all they have to offer!! Even the older 500qe is a possibility, and at 80k with white ink, that looks very reasonable

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I don't have any real world experience with either version either, but I'm not sure that those vacuum tables would suck a warped sheet of 1/2" MDO flat enough to avoid headstrikes....but I may be mistaken.

All I know is that those sheets are so bad sometimes that they don't even lay flat when going through the laminator with full pressure.

It may, may not, just depends on how warped the board is. We actually have some success with mildly warped plywood/MDO through our hybrid, but it requires a bit of babysitting.

 

[synergy_jim]

either way, you are spending big $$$ I would test both prior to buying. I have a wholesale banner printer down the road that sells me finished banners for .99 a square. I could care less if I ever print another one in house for that price...

We tape stuff on the vutek also... thats fine for onesie twosy stuff.... taping 500 would suck!

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Thanks insignia, I was hoping someone with a hybrid would post, hearing real world answers is always good. So basically the smileys you refer to are where the head drags the material on the edges?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

See the attached image, the material sort of buckles or gets wavy as it feeds up and onto the belt, and the farther along it prints the worse it gets and the less they smooth out. Like I said, I can't say 100% this is not user error as I've been too lazy to try to address it with CET, but again I've heard of this happening on many other makes of belt-fed hybrids so my gut says it's the nature of the beast.

Even if it's a fluke on our machine, I'd still consider a true RTR printer if you intend to print a LOT of wide banners, this works in a pinch, but for any volume I wouldn't consider it.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Forgot the picture...

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

I see what you are saying, that could be real frustrating. At the current moment, we only run 5-10 banners a month over 60". So it would be used very minimal on that aspect. But it really only happens on full width material? So if you ran smaller
Banners through there, say 60" it lays flat? Because our idea was to start printing all banners with the hybrid if we get it.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I see what you are saying, that could be real frustrating. At the current moment, we only run 5-10 banners a month over 60". So it would be used very minimal on that aspect. But it really only happens on full width material? So if you ran smaller
Banners through there, say 60" it lays flat? Because our idea was to start printing all banners with the hybrid if we get it.

Yeah, it's weird. Part of me doesn't think it's normal, but for the life of me I can't figure out what causes it either. I have to assume it has to do with the tension on the feed reel but I've literally run through several full rolls of material trying to dial it in and I've yet to find a setting or combination of settings that works correctly so who knows... We do very little 8' banners so it hasn't been a huge deal yet, which is why I haven't made it a priority to bring up to CET.

Under 8' it's fine. We do run a lot of 54" wallpaper on it and have never had the problem, so it has something to do with a full-width roll of banner, something is either not feeding straight or at an even tension, or the roll is sagging in the middle as it feeds in. Dunno...

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Good to know. Thanks

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Also speaking of wall paper, is the uv ink on the cet as prone to rubbing off when cleaning? I'm assuming your using a cloth style wallpaper that does not get laminated

 

[Molenbeek]

If you are looking at CET Q Series- it only comes in a 4x8 or 5x10 true flated. The Xpress 500 and Xpress 1000 are the only two units they have with the Hybrid units or flatbed configuration.

The Q series has the Ricoh head for high quality. The Xpress models all have the Spectra head for good quality with more speed.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Also speaking of wall paper, is the uv ink on the cet as prone to rubbing off when cleaning? I'm assuming your using a cloth style wallpaper that does not get laminated

We use Korographics wall material, which is a textured vinyl with cloth backing. It's significantly more durable than solvent printed wallpaper. This is actually the number one reason we went with the hybrid over the true flatbed. Custom wallpaper is a huge seller for us, and solvent printing it is a pain to put it lightly. And solvent-printing it is extremely prone to scratching during installation. Switching to UV printing it has been an enormous improvement.

 

[artbot]

@crystalcoatgraphics
we've been gearing up our CET running the wide gamut ink. this ink is highly solvent resistant. i've never seen anything like it. even MEK will not take it off. only NMP or stripper will bite it at all. we are going to just lay our wall wraps on the flatbed and print. i'd imagine that there will be so much less vertical deviation and much much better wear resistance.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Thanks, that's good to know. We do a good amount of wall graphics. We've used the koro and general formulations self adhesive wall polyester. But scratching has always been the issue.

Artbot, you just cut it into sheets and let it roll, I know you don't leave the seams overlapped, but the vertical and horizontal seams aren't a problem?

 

[artbot]

we haven't done it yet. but the CET installer did explain the process. we'll build a rolling feeder that we can move "behind" the printer to set up each sheet. i'm sure there will be a bit of waste between each print. i'd rather cut off too much and trim at another table than bother too much with situating it within the print target. ...i'd figure the vertical seams (image/print wise) would have to overlap so the installer can double cut the image once mounted to the wall.