CET vs. Oce

[billram570]

We are in the market for a new Flatbed. We do packaging samples and we need to be able to run CMYK+W+Clear in as high quality as possible as fast as possible. Clean small text and good color is important with as little graininess as possible. We have a Roland LEJ-640, but its basically a toy compared to these true flatbed printers. Ive been in serious talks with Oce regarding their 480xt. But just learned about CET and their X-Press 500Q. Do any of you have any feedback regarding these printers? Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Omni]

CET vs Oce

I prefer Oce by a wide margin over CET, at least from our samples from last year... We have a Fuji Acuity HS (same machine as a 550GT), which we purchased just over a year ago. We had sample files printed by a number of different machines, HP, CET, Vutek, and Fuji/Oce. They all produce nice full colour images, but Oce had by far the best colour gamut for printing spot colours. As well, the detail was better. When presented with a 100 % yellow swatch, the CET dropped some cyan dots in there, and gave it a greenish tint. The black looked like 80% grey compared to the Oce sample side by side.

We continue to be happy with this printer - we even use it for small 1"x2" decals, and it retains great clarity. The white heads have been a bit finicky, but the results are great when you don't have too many nozzle outs.

CET seems to have new/different head/ink combinations at the moment, so I can't say for sure that your experience would be the same.

Contact me if you would like to discuss further. I still have some samples lying around here somewhere.

 

[artbot]

we've got a CET running 49 series ink and of the channels, white might be one of the most trustworthy. we've recently dialed down our negative pressure for all white and non-white ink prints with much improved performance.

 

[billram570]

Artbot, it's interesting that you replied to the thread.. The CET sales guy Marty, mentioned your name...

I really like the CET philosophy... I'm talking to them about putting in 3 rows of CMYK Ricoh print heads with extra whites and a couple of heads for clear varnish...

Are they pretty easy to work with? I know that Advantage is the dealer that provides support so thats a little scary and comforting at the same time.Has it been hard to get your printer dialed in? I wondering if the more heads I put in the 500q will create more headaches of will it be amazin to print 2 1/2 " of ink at a time. I've Been following the forum here and it seems like everybody is really high on CET..

Oce acts like no one other then them exist in this market.. I've had sales guys parade in and out of my office the past few business days... Teckwin, Oce, Jetrix, Mimaki, and CET.

I'm leaning toward CET, but I've got to see the samples and go to the dungeon in Atlanta to see the table in action. Decisions decisions

 

[artbot]

i can only speak for my old school fk series (i think i have the first 6x10 every built by CET, maybe?...)

my printer really isn't supported any more by CET. not that i don't get support. but the techs that were the gurus on this particular model aren't at CET anymore.

one thing i do like about CET (and i came to this conclusion after viewing all competing printers at sga new orleans is now well laid out it is for basic service. the oce' looked fragile to me. like i was going to be tossing heavy sheets of acrylic and spilling ink on a mercedes. i perfer more of a military issue printer.

when looking at the CET, it was like "i can get my hands in there". very very easy to work on. everything is just a simple panel away. also, i've located ink pumps for $20 each, lamps for $180, vacuum pumps for $90 (OEM). cheap to keep it running.

i wish we could just ring up CET and get a guru on the phone when we run in to a novice/untrained issue. but we are slowly running out of those things. expect about six months of head scratching here and there with any complex new piece of equipment. there is a really balancing act for the ink supply and then there's voltage and heat to the heads. it takes a while to understand the system.

as for the multiple heads. the biggest time savings will be a special white head fore and aft, that is if you are running lots of spot white. we run spot white on more than half our work and it cuts the print time in half because of the head set up. if you aren't doing lots of color (no spot white) the more/wider heads the better. but at what expense. you have a production web to consider. are you printing faster than you can trim/cnc? it all has to balance out.

i was all about the varnish but we strangely haven't used it that much. and it's the most prone to clogging (odd). i'd think that if any money was to be spent, the varnish would have to be very specific to your product line or else liters of varnish will be misted into the waste tray without ever being used.

 

[iprint]

550 XT here and love it. I don't really have any feedback on CET except for what I read. Our printer spends it's time printing and not being "dialed" in. White ink only seems finicky when it is not used. When we are printing board after board of white it seems to flow well with no issues. Gamut is great. 6 pt text is crisp and clear. Unfortunately I have zero experience with varnish. Build quality is about as solid as you can get and definitely a production worthy machine.

 

[artbot]

i'm fairly positive that a printer that costs over four times as much as my printer is better.

 

[iprint]

Exactly. The comparison is not a fair one. Kind of like comparing a Cadillac to a Chevy. Sure, both are great when properly maintained, but the Caddy will have more features and allow you to get from one point to the next with a little more comfort. However, from what I have read on CET, they do indeed sound like they have a lot going for them as far as versatility, price point and customer service is concerned.

 

[artbot]

didn't mean to sound...whatever. on that last reply. definitely you can see when the oce is running, it's a more sophisticated build.

 

[billram570]

I think its a little unfair to compare Artbots older Hybrid printer to the latest and greatest OCE 550 series printer.

Im looking at the CET Express 500Q with the Ricoh heads and possibly even the K Series with the configuration that will probably run circles in speed around the OCE.

Im sure if Artbot was comparing his machine to the OCE 250gt series it would be more closely matched if not better.

The configurations im looking at in terms of speed are going to be as fast or faster then the Oce. I guess the question for me is trying to figure out a configuration that will run the hell out of white. Because 80% of my work is White and CMYK. And if I looked at a print off of both the CET with the Ricoh or Konica Minolta heads, is my quality and sharpness of text going to be like that of the OCE , better or worse? Im in packaging, so I need to run most jobs in high quality mode. (My customers dont look at my printed pieces on the wall. They look at them 12" from their eyes). So I know this will slow me down. I wonder what kind of throughput im going to get through either printer.

My next question is, with the price savings on the CET, am I sacrificing support and the ability to get my printer dialed in quickly? Just unsure between them and Advantage if they will be enough. Hopefully they can give me some assurances that this will be the case. If anybody else has any experience with CET or Oce on these matters Id love to hear about it.

Ive heard good things about OCE support, but is it worth the extra money? The printer itself is more money and the support is more money. Is it worth it? Questions to be answered. Ive always taken the road less traveled when faced with these decisions. But 150k - 250k of my own money is a lot to make a bad decision.

On another note: does anyone know any good color experts that might help me profile and dial in my color on either one of these printers?

 

[Robert Gruner]

Artbot

I've enjoyed reading your posts for some time. I like your hands on approach.

Do you get the opportunity to travel to ISA or SGIA to review the latest and greatest in wideformat digital printing?

If so, what are your thoughts re: the Mimaki JFX500-2131? What I saw was a flatbed in the price range of the Oce printing what appeared to be faster and higher quality graphics than the competition.

Bob Gruner
bob@nusignsupply.com

 

[synergy_jim]

all models have issues. I'm really liking our CET 500 5x10 with the spectra heads.....

all I know is we can print 10 - 4' x 8' prints an hour and that my friends is straight $$$

 

[artbot]

i'd love to head the either tradeshow. right now i think mimaki is being mismanaged. the jf1631 was a mess and ended up with post curing lamps, they came out with two expensive printers (latex, and suv). i can only imagine that the jfx would be equally over engineered. ideally the printer is supposed to go back and forth and squirt ink on a substrate. why that suddenly becomes an exercise in complexity, who knows. engineers are supposed to build low maintenance, fast, and inexpensive machines.

owning a CET shows the user just how amazingly simple these machines are.

as for the 10- 4x8's an hour, what resolution is that? that really clipping by quickly for a reasonably priced printer.

 

[billram570]

Jack,

So looking at your older post you really looked closely at Jetrix and CET 500. Im looking at both really hard. Any feedback on either machine that you can share? What made you pick CET 500 over the Jetrix?

Have you had a pleasant experience since your install and are there any issues that I need to know about if I go the CET route?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[billram570]

Sorry i meant Jim

 

[Tekkie1]

Hello
I have just installed for a customer a Handtop UV printer model HT 2512UV with 5 Richco heads, on more investigation I see its the same as the CET machine you are all speaking about the X-press 500.
After setting up and creating a profile and doing test prints I am blown away at the results from this machine. The detail , quality and brilliance of the test image as well as the simplicity of operation has me hooked.
The "See Get" rip software although simple does the job very well.
I usually work on Mimaki UV printers and Roland solvent and dye sub machines and this machine in my opinion as a tech is far better.
The way its put together is also excellent and you could mistake it for a Japanese machine.
This machine for me will be a great seller in the market place.
I look forward to seeing more out there!
Tekkie1

 

[HulkSmash]

I print 13 4x8's an hr on my HPFB

 

[synergy_jim]

Artbot..... the 10 sheets and hour is 4x8 1200x600 draft quality. If we move to Production quality, speed drops to roughly 4.5 4x8's per hour.


CET sold us on the ease of servicing our own stuff. Plus we can go to the plant and get further training for free.

Our dealer made us a demo site for CET also.... That took some money off the price and made it hard to pass up.



One warning!!! MAKE SURE you do not let the install techs leave until they have trained you on everything!!!!!! they did a crappy job when they trained us.....

 

[artbot]

our install was a bit of a mess (understatement) and we were too confident so we just said "it's cool, we got it". even though there were a few unresolved issues. our tech was "ice". who is a great guy, ...incredibly smart.

so everyone when a tech says "i have to stay until you are completely trained and understand all this", don't let them go! it's amazing how much stuff you don't understand the day they leave.

 

[synergy_jim]

our install was a bit of a mess (understatement) and we were too confident so we just said "it's cool, we got it". even though there were a few unresolved issues. our tech was "ice". who is a great guy, ...incredibly smart.

so everyone when a tech says "i have to stay until you are completely trained and understand all this", don't let them go! it's amazing how much stuff you don't understand the day they leave.

same situation here.... I know what I am doing, but they should have trained us on auto mist and cleaning.... they never touched it at all...