Channel Letter Cleanup

[daveb]

Sorry I didnt mention. But actually we have taken down some 9' tall Sears channel letters that had a wood composite back and the metal side returns were wrapped around it. The signs were originally made by a major, national, electric sign company.. I can only guess, maybe back in the 70's. I dont remember if they were labeled or not.

My God, I feel old.... Yes, they probably were labeled and it was a common means of construction in the 60's and 70's before aluminum was in such common use, plus I don't know if the technology for welding and working aluminum was available yet. Prior to that it would have been galvanized steel which got VERY heavy if the letters were too big, the plywood provide more rigidity and wasn't as heavy. The plywood I saw had a thin layer of aluminum laminated on one side (to provide a ground for the neon I was told!) and was sold until the late 80's, that was before any of the new laminated boards were available. It came mill finish, we used to buy it and spray it with enamel for sign blanks, probably where the idea of laminated substraights came from, (remember the vinyl clad medex Nudo came out with in the late 80's?). Amazing how much things have changed in 30 years! Please excuse me, I've got to go drink my prune juice now.

 

[vinylbarry]

Well I do see some of your guys points but I am on the other side of the coin go for it how are you going to learn if you dont try yes you might not make any money but you will get valuable experince are you a vinyl company or a sign company thats the point here.
We never built a 50 foot tall billboard untill this year and this thing was in the 30,000.00 so it was a huge step for us, it had 4 faces , 13 foot deep hole, had crane to deal with concrete 4 guys working all over the place had to watch for safty concerns becuase of lifting huge peices in the air and more but I checked qoute over and over and over to make sure before we bid it, we also asked lots of people questions about it. I would never look back now I am so happy we did the job becuase we now have the largest and best looking billboard on that highway. We built it by specs and took extra time here and there to make sure but it was a awsome Experince!!!!
So you have to decide are you going to be a sign compnay or just a vinyl shop. Check codes, check electrical codes, permits, and such but never learn by not doing everbody and I know everbody started somewere nothing got done by itself.

 

[JAMEY]

I am looking into other options I might be able to handle. New options. A nice size lightbox with maybe a formed face. The letters there are not 20 feet like mentioned above. After measuring, they were only 12 feet.

 

[SFoley1062]

We removed a set of letters for a Rite Aid that had wood backs which had rotted away...a pretty big sign company fabricated and installed them in the 90's.

 

[Marlene]

well i was avoiding the specific conversation about the construction of this sign because i didnt want to plant any ideas in the OP's head..i just wanted him to listen to commonsense and pass on this project..and apparently he is.

Jhill i have seen more hack job channel letter jobs than i care to remember where the back of each letter is plywood ...YIKES... it is the only indicator that i have ever needed to tell a client that service and repair is not an option and that the only way i would work on it is to REPLACE it.

I was doing my best too not to say anything about the plywood too. we've serviced signs in Plattsburgh and you would be suprised just how many have plywood backs on the channel letters. since some are big name chain stores and were most likely made out of state, it's hard to pin it on a sign maker from the area but sure seems odd that there are so many over there that are plywood.

 

[petrosgraphics]

plymetal was what they used, some was smooth and some had a stippled look.

in the yesteryears we used channellume for the sides, me thinks it is still being made..

nothing like the good old days.....

 

[JAMEY]

Yeah. This sign I was talking about is in Albany, NY. Not Plattsburgh.

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

The ol Channellume letters.

They still exist today but you can't use the wood metal laminate backs. You would have to use a corrugated alum back or similar. I would have to think you would need new faces as well which those are bonded to the returns. Any modification of this sign on the field and you would need a UL or other listers "Field Label". If you bring it back to your shop to hand cut all rears then you are also going to need to relist the complete sign, IF a listed sign is required in that city/county.

Sounds more cost effective to sell a whole new CL set rather than risk an inconsistency in lighting should something break. Even if you alter the sign only, down the road you might be blamed for this sign going out whether it was because of you or age. I can only imagine the fused electrode caps or GTO that may have bonded to the electrodes, sometimes electrodes will get broken just trying to get off and on.


Good Luck

 

[Gino]

I've never seen a wood backer on channels or any cabinets in my life. No codes would ever allow that around here. I've seen them mounted with wooden posts, which is also illegal around here, but never the backs.

I've asked a few other guys that are in the electric side of it locally and they too have said they never heard of it with the exception of that wood covered with aluminum product.

Wow, what a sheltered life I've lived.

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

It was pretty bad when you camc across a set that had wood rot and you could literally see letters falling apart.

The thing I like about channelume is the fact you don't have trim cap which can give a sign a better finished look

 

[MikePro]

UPSELL!

tell him to upgrade to LED while he's at it, and the job will pay for itself in energy savings over the next 5-10yrs..... AND they're GUARANTEED for 100k hours.

 

[Westcoast Sign Guy]

UPSELL!

tell him to upgrade to LED while he's at it, and the job will pay for itself in energy savings over the next 5-10yrs..... AND they're GUARANTEED for 100k hours.

100k what???

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

haha lol i can tell where this thread is going to go now....

 

[petrosgraphics]

with the channelume and plymetal we use to rout the inside edge of the plywood to allow
the channelume to fit a little better, the plymetal would last a while but when it got spongee
there was no way of saving it.... there were many a time the letter was ok you just had to replace the plymetal...... the real fun part was adhering the plastic to the channelume,
sticking your head inside an 8" return to see what the holy heck you were doing, after a while you got, lets say, a little stupid..... nothing like breathing in a little resin bond.....

 

[JAMEY]

I bet! This is straight particle board on these backs.

 

[iceracer]

the new trend i am seeing more and more is illuminated 'cabinets' made entirely out of wood...i recently spotted one being hung by a sign company (a quicky sticky type shop) that was constructed of 2" X 10" lumber lol with the faces cut to the OD of the frame and then simply screwed into the 2X10's instead of retainer, i mean why not? if you are going to do a hack job go all the way. my biggest laugh was that they were taking great pride in this .. uhm... sign after they attached the faces they applied approx 4" vinyl stripes over their screws to create a 'border' on the sign...installed the sign between two 6X6 posts set in concrete with the top of the sign at about 8' off the ground so there might be 2' in the ground..doesnt matter either way, it is just one of the most incredible hack jobs i have ever seen...but they truly took pride in the construction, painted the 'cabinet' and posts white after installation.

Do us/me a favour and take a pic of this art. Although I have yet to see something like this in person, I absolutely believe you.

Does this forum have an "ugly sign" area? Signs of the times mag had one issue/contest a year dedicated to them.

I've taken some pics of some real beauties over the years.

Terry

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

maybe the signmaker of the sign will post a photo...

 

[JAMEY]

maybe the signmaker of the sign will post a photo...

Here is a quickie pic. I will get better pics of the backings when I go back. This was with my Samsung Rugby phone.