Andy,
I think I know why you never answered my questions about what LED's you use for your company, Smart Group.
Are you thinking along the lines of revenue streams? I know I am. Excuse me for choosing to keep a major income strand confidential.
You are telling me you put your 20+ year faith in this offshore stuff from Vedon LED? I wouldn't answer the question either that I've asked you a couple times over the years too, I suppose. But why not be proud if you stand behind your LED's?
No, you assume that I use stuff made by someone called Vedon, I don't and to be honest I never heard the name Vedon before you mentioned it. Lots of led's share a generic outer casing design, this is probably where you've got confused
It's no wonder why you said if you are paying "more" for neon than your "LED's" then you are buying the wrong LED's. Andy, I would give this stuff a couple months running 24/7 before I suspect it to start rapidly degrade in light output. Just for giggles I may even add it to the Syndicate testing.
What a great idea. Why don't I dump the extensive data I've collected over the last 12 or so years and get you to run a two month bench test. Screw real field data and extended running in Northern European weather conditions. If I want to know if my led's will still be working perfectly in 8 years time why pull a customer record and make a courtesy call... you can do all that for me. Oh, but you can't can you... the data required to give an accurate 8 year product durability report is something you just don't have... you're Syndicate hasn't been in existence long enough.
On CCFL fitting?
I'm talking about same color temp glass throughout any glass manufacturer. If I need to replace a EGL 6500 lamp I can buy a Tecnolux 6500 and expect a good match with temp. Can you do that LED's?
Cold Cathode Fluorescent Tubes..... If I still used this old hat technology I would actually go for a good T8 or T5 tube matched to an electronic ballast. In Europe Slyvania are one of the best brands. All that said I still don't see the relevance here? In my market full face acrylic illumination isn't very popular, more discrete, stylish fret cut systems are the norm. For these signs 90% of your CCFL tube is burning away illuminating the back of a solid aluminium sign panel.
I hope these aren't the LED's you are boasting about that one can take a leap of faith on.
You are mistaking "boasting" as an attempt to balance the argument. You make all sorts of claims about led's are rubbish for this, no good for that and simply don't last. This is not my experience so I think people would like to see the other side of the argument
If American sign makers turn to LED technology in their droves what do I really care? It has no impact on me or my business. BUT... many American sign shops might just benefit from this technology, this is why I think it's essential to balance the picture, something which clearly enrages you.
If you wish to make snide comments about the led's you THINK I use and the performance you THINK they offer then feel free to keep on speculating till the cows come home. Personally I place more store on what customers tell me about how effective led lighting has been for them.
1. Andy, c'mon! You've made these statements about your LED's in various threads for a while now, you're also in a sign forum we can drop masking your product in the guise of confidential marketing to clients. If you want to come on a sign forum and make claims, then you need to be able to back them up.
2. This module would cost be about a $1.00, this IS generic, with copycats all over. But, this is basically the same module to many cheapskate sign companies buy and sell to their clients BECAUSE it's so cheap and they in turn don't care how long it lasts. You probably to have Vedon, but it's changed hands so many times (3-4) and gone through so many names who knows what party you are.
3. Uhh, you don't need 8-12 years to get an idea of light degradation from a product, you can do this and have a good feel running it 6 months to a year, 24/7 recoding the surface light. Besides, I've already gone through a lot og the cheap offshore stuff
4. This shows that you obviously have no experience with neon whatsoever
In my market full face acrylic illumination isn't very popular, more discrete, stylish fret cut systems are the norm. For these signs 90% of your CCFL tube is burning away illuminating the back of a solid aluminium sign panel.
Market share for reverse channel? 90% light loss due to light being shed on the back of a letter? I'm amazed yet again!
CCFL has a viewing angle of 360 degrees, your has 90 degrees. when you install neon tothe back of a letter you have the wall facing lamp using somewhere around 160 degrees, the other 200 degrees is being reflected creating more light at the wall for halo illumination.
5. I'm not saying LED's don't last, I'm just saying there are very few I personally would use. Even with the best LED's that I've tested, your statements wouldn't even apply to it. LED's are not for all applications, and one just needs to know the pro's and cons, of both NEON & LED's, and how to use them right.
The reason why I choose to start the testing for both LED's and Neon on the Syndicate is, I got tired of being barraged by marketing statements on both sides. But especially from the LED crowd who makes OUTRAGEOUS statements like you have here a couple of times now and in the past. I mean 20+ years? 20+ years for what? 30% light degradation and the 60,000 hour BS? How much do you think the best LED's degrade in 13k hours? How would yours compare, that you are preaching to everyone that they aren't using the right LED's ?
I'm not trying to be "snide", I just care, I care about the outrageous claims, marketing statements, sales myths thrown out there that have wrongfully damaged the electric sign industry that I work in. When these statements are thrown out it affects not only the sign industry, but the lighting industry as well, down to the consumer sitting on his couch watching TV.
I'm not a "Neon" guy, I'm not a LED guy, I have no invested interest in this, BUT it can affect the future decisions I make and freedoms of choosing products for my signs and applications. This is all very small compared the larger picture at hand when it comes to bureaucratic decisions telling me I can't use fluorescent ot neon lamps anymore because they "pose" a danger (Mercury BS), or they are inefficient compared to LED's.
Forget the sign market for a second, there is a larger picture when Lighting companies buddy up with our governments. It always means bad decisions get made, and WE, pay for it.
