Choosing a - HP Latex 630W or Roland TrueVIS VG3-64 eco-solvent?

[Theflex]

Hi,
We are woorking with busadvertisment and are looking to start our own production. We are mostly printing on monomer foile.

And as you can guess! the salesman for the Roland are saying that his produkt is the best and the same for the HP salesman.

We are leening more to the HP Latex 630W, we are now printing 50-100m a week. mostly we print two pieces with 1cm overlap. One piece are 137x200cm

As I see this question seems to have lots of answers. witch one do you think that we would chose? Please hold your answers short.

 

[P Wagner]

Hi,
We are woorking with busadvertisment and are looking to start our own production. We are mostly printing on monomer foile.

And as you can guess! the salesman for the Roland are saying that his produkt is the best and the same for the HP salesman.

We are leening more to the HP Latex 630W, we are now printing 50-100m a week. mostly we print two pieces with 1cm overlap. One piece are 137x200cm

As I see this question seems to have lots of answers. witch one do you think that we would chose? Please hold your answers short.

Does white ink have value for you? If all you ever want to do with the printer is print onto white medias, typically the answer would be no.

On the other hand, there is a world of non-white printable media (clear/ translucent/ colored/ metallic etc) where white ink can add tremendous opportunity for higher margin applications and business differentiation. Solvent white inks tend to be a disappointment to most, due to a lack of opacity and higher ink costs (both more expensive than the other inks, and more servicing/ waste). HP Latex solves these shortcomings with a very opaque and white ink that does not cost more per ml than other inks, and a unique ability to achieve zero-waste when not actively printing white, through the removal of the white PH from the carriage and storing it in an offline chamber.

 

[somcalmetim]

Pretty sure Solvent is known to be better/longer lasting for vehicle graphics.
We typically get 7+ year road life with Roland VG2 and VG3 on 3M 180 with gloss lam on trucks/cars/buses.
Almost no smell but we still run a small exhaust fan right above machine.
Always been interested in white ink but never had enough jobs requiring it to bother when doing mostly vehicles.

 

[P Wagner]

Pretty sure Solvent is known to be better/longer lasting for vehicle graphics.
We typically get 7+ year road life with Roland VG2 and VG3 on 3M 180 with gloss lam on trucks/cars/buses.
Almost no smell but we still run a small exhaust fan right above machine.
Always been interested in white ink but never had enough jobs requiring it to bother when doing mostly vehicles.

Interesting that you mention the longevity of solvent vs Latex inks for wrap applications. The 3M MCS Warranty covers HP Latex inks for 7 years (zone2). The same MCS Warranty covers Roland Trueviz TR2 inks for 5 years (3M IJ180 with proper laminate in each case). Here is the link:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/graphics-signage-us/resources/warranties/

One other difference: the 3M MCS graphics warranty for Latex includes white ink. This allows inclusion of auto paint colors with the addition of vibrant printed colors onto clear film (such as 3M IJ180-114), and eliminates the need to try to match auto paint in print. It also allows for printing vibrant colors onto color change wrap films for those media manufacturers who support this.

White ink is expressly excluded from the 3M MCS Roland TR2 warranty statement.

 

[somcalmetim]

Honestly I don't put much stock in 3M warranties as it only covers the material if they can't find a way to get out of it. Using funky material like color change wrap material not specifically designed for printing is one way.
I only trust materials and processes I have worked with myself and seen the actual results over time since I am responsible for the larger cost of removing and replacing anything that goes wrong.

The ability to print on clear absolutely does not eliminate the need to match paint colors. Might be neat to add clear printed graphics to an already painted panel but normally we need to match paint colors because the surface we need to wrap is not already painted in the same color.

 

[Theflex]

I

Pretty sure Solvent is known to be better/longer lasting for vehicle graphics.
We typically get 7+ year road life with Roland VG2 and VG3 on 3M 180 with gloss lam on trucks/cars/buses.
Almost no smell but we still run a small exhaust fan right above machine.
Always been interested in white ink but never had enough jobs requiring it to bother when doing mostly vehicles.

If it last half the time im happy. Mostly we have 1year campaigns and when we do striping of a company logo on a car, then it needs to last 3yesrs tops!

 

[LiqueColor]

Your total cost of ownership is going to be less with the HP. It’s almost impossible to buy the Roland without having the extended warranty shoved down your throat. HP printheads are easily replaced and HP does not lock you out of the bios when it comes to repairs. Just my opinion after 25 years in this business.

 

[Theflex]

Your total cost of ownership is going to be less with the HP. It’s almost impossible to buy the Roland without having the extended warranty shoved down your throat. HP printheads are easily replaced and HP does not lock you out of the bios when it comes to repairs. Just my opinion after 25 years in this business.

Thx!

 

[ikarasu]

Honestly I don't put much stock in 3M warranties as it only covers the material if they can't find a way to get out of it. Using funky material like color change wrap material not specifically designed for printing is one way.
I only trust materials and processes I have worked with myself and seen the actual results over time since I am responsible for the larger cost of removing and replacing anything that goes wrong.

The ability to print on clear absolutely does not eliminate the need to match paint colors. Might be neat to add clear printed graphics to an already painted panel but normally we need to match paint colors because the surface we need to wrap is not already painted in the same color.

We run both latex and solvent in our shop for the past 8 years.... Exclusively solvent before we got our latex.


The old owners were like you, and afraid latex wasn't as good as solvent - back in the 260 days that may have been true... But 99% of what we print now is on our latex, I've had non laminated prints laying flat on our roof, as well as on our sun facing wall for 7 years now, and even the Reds haven't fainted...whereas on our solvent printer the Reds have slightly fainted and the yellows completely gone.

Inks have come a long way. 3m actually warranties traffic printing, using the same inks for 10+ years on latex printers..I believe it's 12, but don't quote me on that, it's been awhile since I looked.

Whether 3m tries to get out of warranties or not... 3m actually has a weather chamber where they do all these tests for longevity. In the old days solvent inks had a lot more chemicals and solvents in them, and maybe they lasted decades - nowadays everyone is trying to go green and solvent inks turned into eco solvent inks, they use less harsh chemicals than before and imo, don't stand up as good as older solvents did.

Not saying either tech is bad, as solvent should last aong time outdoors as well, just don't discount latex, as latex (IMO) outlasts solvents these days.

 

[balstestrat]

VG3 and 630 next to each other, I'd take 630.
And don't come and say TR inks don't smell. You have just got used to it.

 

[PixelGrafix]

Hi,
We are woorking with busadvertisment and are looking to start our own production. We are mostly printing on monomer foile.

And as you can guess! the salesman for the Roland are saying that his produkt is the best and the same for the HP salesman.

We are leening more to the HP Latex 630W, we are now printing 50-100m a week. mostly we print two pieces with 1cm overlap. One piece are 137x200cm

As I see this question seems to have lots of answers. witch one do you think that we would chose? Please hold your answers short.

I've owned both - hands down the HP Latex. If i ever purchase again, HP all the way - so much easier and less problematic and I believe less expensive to maintain. Prints beautifully able to use immediately.

 

[Theflex]

We run both latex and solvent in our shop for the past 8 years.... Exclusively solvent before we got our latex.


The old owners were like you, and afraid latex wasn't as good as solvent - back in the 260 days that may have been true... But 99% of what we print now is on our latex, I've had non laminated prints laying flat on our roof, as well as on our sun facing wall for 7 years now, and even the Reds haven't fainted...whereas on our solvent printer the Reds have slightly fainted and the yellows completely gone.

Inks have come a long way. 3m actually warranties traffic printing, using the same inks for 10+ years on latex printers..I believe it's 12, but don't quote me on that, it's been awhile since I looked.

Whether 3m tries to get out of warranties or not... 3m actually has a weather chamber where they do all these tests for longevity. In the old days solvent inks had a lot more chemicals and solvents in them, and maybe they lasted decades - nowadays everyone is trying to go green and solvent inks turned into eco solvent inks, they use less harsh chemicals than before and imo, don't stand up as good as older solvents did.

Not saying either tech is bad, as solvent should last aong time outdoors as well, just don't discount latex, as latex (IMO) outlasts solvents these days.

Okey, What Latex printer do you have? Do you have with or whitout white? With overlay or whats it called (the substace that are over the latex for protection)

 

[P Wagner]

Okey, What Latex printer do you have? Do you have with or whitout white? With overlay or whats it called (the substace that are over the latex for protection)

The Latex 630/ 700/ 800 Series are referred to as Gen4 printers. The Gen4 inkset contains an anti-scratch agent that is separate from the other inks, called Overcoat. It should generally be turned off (disabled) when printing to a media where laminate is being applied after printing. Benefits from disabling the Overcoat are that the laminate bond is more robust between the cured ink and the laminate adhesive, and there is a bit of ink savings from not using the Overcoat.

The previous generation printers (100/ 300/ 500 Series) are Gen3 devices. In the Gen3 printers, the Overcoat cannot be disabled on these.

 

[ikarasu]

Okey, What Latex printer do you have? Do you have with or whitout white? With overlay or whats it called (the substace that are over the latex for protection)

We have the 700w for white. With overcoat - and yes it can be turned off.


Weve also had 3x 560s, 360, and a 110 - all those you couldn't turn overcoat off.... Never had an issue. It's nice that you can turn it off, but we never had an overlam fail without turning it off on our older printers as well