Circle sticker issues

[StickerBros]

Some what of a rookie question here since I am not a designer. I own our print shop but I do not do our graphic design. We are trying to do circle decals and the border is always off like shown in the picture. Our designer says it’s near impossible to center art work on a circle with small border. Is this true or is there more he can be doing?

We are using Roland VG2 and Roland Camm 1 GR2

 

[balstestrat]

You should do cut calibration if it's always off like that.

 

[StickerBros]

You should do cut calibration if it's always off like that.

We have done that and it’s only on circles. I think it’s the artwork but he says it’s not. Confusing. All other shapes cut normal and fine

 

[balstestrat]

Well it either is or not. Print squares and rounds next to each other.
Then you know for sure if it's file issue or calibration.

It can't be off just because it's round.

 

[Solventinkjet]

It almost looks like your cutter is having issues. There are some jagged edges that should be smooth. Maybe your blade holder and/or cut strip is worn out?

Most design programs have a centering tool that does it mathematically. On the design end it should be perfect. It would have to be the cutter in my opinion.

 

[Stacey K]

"Our designer says it’s near impossible to center art work on a circle with small border" - this leads me to believe he is creating the artwork then creating a separate black circle and trying to center it. He should be creating the circle art then add an outline so it's always perfect.

OR

Check that your blade is tight. When I bought my cutter I never checked to see if it was tight and it worked fine with square type things but circles looked just like yours - I wasted a lot of time trying to figure it out LOL

 

[CVS]

Are you printing, laminating, and then cutting? I sometimes find that this is enough to distort the vinyl slightly, same as weather conditions. Where I am the weather can change 40 degrees in 24 hours and vinyl doesn't like that at all!

 

[Mr. Signboy]

It may be your designer but I had the same issues for years crop cutting on a Roland (3 different machines had the same issue.)

How many are you trying to cut in a batch, and is the cut offset the same on both sides of the machine?

 

[myront]

Our cuts are always a bit off like that. Depends on the both the size of the circle and size of the outline/stroke. Helps to keep to a short runs. Be sure to use all pinch rollers too.

 

[Kemik]

The industry standard for flexographic and offset stickers is a 1/8" thick boarder, die cutting in the middle to leave you with 1/16" on either side. I realize this is not a flexographic press, but I have also had 3 different Roland's, and I find it easier to say upfront that the standard is a 1/16" Boarder, anything below that will run the risk of looking misaligned.

The best thing to do on Roland's is smaller runs, maybe print 8.5" at a time and then cut. If you are still having alignment issues, especially if it is only misaligned on one side or in the middle of your media, I've found that lowering the heat to the lowest setting 35 or 36 and setting the Dry time in Versa Works to 3 mins or how ever long it takes for the ink to dry to the touch, then die cutting is much more accurate because the media has not shrunk as much from the heat.

Also making sure your alignment is set correctly, and the blade is not too far out are excellent suggestions as well.

 

[jfiscus]

Some plotters just cut decals with borders like this better than others.
The type of registration marks used/read can also lead to tighter tolerances if that is an option on your plotter.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

I have never had issues with cutting circles around artwork and having it centered. It's all in the way you center your artwork, or make the cut line around the shape you wish to cut. I cut stickers all the time with odd shapes and have not had any issues following the odd shape of the sticker I am printing.

 

[Mr. Signboy]

I have never had issues with cutting circles around artwork and having it centered. It's all in the way you center your artwork, or make the cut line around the shape you wish to cut. I cut stickers all the time with odd shapes and have not had any issues following the odd shape of the sticker I am printing.

You can make the cleanest artwork ever and if your cutter can't plot accurately, they will look off. The Roland can't cut more than a foot or two of decals at a time and stay accurate. Mine never really had issues on large cuts, but decals were a nightmare. Best option is to use the Roland to print and use a dedicated cutter to cut, or don't design decals with a border or anything that will make it obvious if it didn't cut perfectly.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

His post says that his artist says that he can not center the artwork properly in the circle. That doesn't sound like an equipment problem.

 

[Saturn]

To me this looks like an issue with someone accepting or creating artwork that needs a bleed off the sky/mountain, or larger border. And a plotter that's not dialed in or understood quite as well as it could be. I don't know how large the final product is, but I'd either have fabricated the bleed, or made the border 3-4 times as large, then we wouldn't be worrying about it.

I have no doubt the designer can align two simple shapes. I think they're being misunderstood and were just trying to convey that the final product would not appear aligned no matter how they set it up. And voila, it doesn't look great.

In my experience, circles and rectangles are going to show tolerance limits on cutters more obviously than more complex shapes. It's also easier for the eye to catch any alignment issues on symmetrical shapes with small borders.

If it's not already understood, I'd train yourself and/or the sales folks to not accept things that don't have an 1/8th inch bleed, and at least an 1/8th to 1/4" inch border/margin. Everything you create will look better as a result. No printer, plotter, cutter, is going to be perfect, so you'll always be beating your head against the wall otherwise.

I'd say the number one skill a designer/prepress person can have is just faking bleeds all day long and not raising a stink or even telling anyone.... Sad truths if you've ever been there. ;p

 

[bob]

"...Our designer says it’s near impossible to center art work on a circle with small border..."

Your 'designer', and I use the term loosely, should consider taking up some other line of work, it doesn't know it's a$$ from a warm cookie.

"...It almost looks like your cutter is having issues. There are some jagged edges that should be smooth. Maybe your blade holder and/or cut strip is worn out?..."

When a plotter starts behaving like this it's usually, but not always, because the tool carriage is contaminated. Try removing any dust cover over your tool carriage and blowing out all the accumulated dust and crud with a bit of compressed air. Pay particular attention to the blade up/down mechanism. This sort of contamination tens to screw up the timing of the cutter tackle.

 

[Kemik]

I had a Print/Cut 64" Roland VS, and the alignment would be perfect on the left and right sides, but off in the middle. I found when I turned the heat down as low as possible, the print cut alignment was 99% more accurate because the heat was not shrinking the vinyl. I now have a Print/Cut UV Mimaki that doesn't use any heat and it's very accurate with small boarders. If your cutter alignment is spot on, and your cuts are off, your print heat was probably too high.

 

[Mr. Signboy]

I had a Print/Cut 64" Roland VS, and the alignment would be perfect on the left and right sides, but off in the middle. I found when I turned the heat down as low as possible, the print cut alignment was 99% more accurate because the heat was not shrinking the vinyl. I now have a Print/Cut UV Mimaki that doesn't use any heat and it's very accurate with small boarders. If your cutter alignment is spot on, and your cuts are off, your print heat was probably too high.

You can turn the heat off on a Roland when cutting, it helps a little, but I'd be very surprised if you ever get that machine to produce those decals with a cut that isn't somewhat noticeably off. unless your willing to settle for printing very small runs and taking a lot of time and wasted material.

 

[Kemik]

I would print on 60" material with the heat low, like 35 or 36, I believe 34 is OFF?
Being a boarder/bleed job, and using aftermarket inks, I would print crop marks, and let the prints dry for a day or 2, and put them back in and it cut like a charm.

I don't have any Rolands anymore, just the Mimaki UCJV and it does an excellent job with registration and boarders, mind you it wastes more material than the Roland ever did because it puts crops on every print/cut!

 

[MikePro]

never accept it as "that's just how it is".

major note of concern with your sample image: the notch at the top right corner. sure your cut is slightly off-center, BUT the solution may lie within the answer to why your circle is not a complete circle cut.

highly doubtful your designer isn't aligning shapes in production files. tinker&adjust, the gremlin is in there somewhere and you have control over everything possible to fix it: media feed comp in printer, calibration of cutter, adjustments/considerations for expansion/shrinking of material, stepper limitations of the cutter, acceleration/offset settings for curves, drag of the media through the cutter, drag of the blade through the media, etc.... it all starts with trial/error/effort, but be assured that you're not the first to encounter this problem. If you still have a service contact for whomever you purchased your printer/cutter from, I would lean on them to walk you through the checklist of calibrations to get you better results.