Client Asked Me To Relocate Plastic Gemini Letters. ADVICE?

[Speedsterbeast]

In 2014 I did an = installation of white 15" Minnesota letters from Gemini into vinyl siding / wood.
I used silicone for the studs.
They are asking me to quote removing them and relocating them to a new location.
I spoke to Gemini and they said it is often done.

My concerns are:
-Breaking the mounts and or letters
-Fading of the older letters if I need to replace any. (White north-facing should not be too bad though)
-Making my own paper pattern for the stud holes. ( I've never done this)

I'm thinking of giving an estimate only (not a quote)
For a range of being able to salvage all the letters to having to supply the whole batch.

Any advice if I may be missing something, or from experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[player]

How much are all new letters VS the time to remove and clean old letters?

Even if you use the old letters will Gemini make the new paper pattern with mounting holes marked?

You can use fishing line to remove old letters, unless you mean you used mounting studs that are held in place with silicone?

 

[Kwiksigns]

i've had to make the templates for the studs before... Since I made the layout, I plotted it. Then laid the whole thing out on the table. Under the letter I put a cushion of some kind and press the letter down making an impression onto the paper so I could see where the studs would be. Marked them with a sharpie. done. Just an idea if Gemini can't remake the pattern for you.

 

[shoresigns]

Just tell the client what your concerns are and that the letters might be damaged in the removal. If any letters have to be replaced, they might not match unless you replace all of them. Give them an estimate for each scenario if you want.

 

[fresh]

gemini charges something like $4.50 a letter for the pattern (retail.) I'd probably charge at least that for just the pattern, plus a few bucks per letter to remove ($3 each, idk how hard its going to be to get them out) then add in your normal install rate. i'd also get new studs because the ones you have a gooped up, so add another buck or two per letter.

so, i'd probably be around $9-10 per letter to remove and pattern, then I like to add another 15% because I feel like I'm always forgetting something, so $11.50 a letter to remove and pattern plus typical install rate.

 

[jfiscus]

(Assuming no one has a paper template for install and that the letters survive removal) I would take a piece of phototex out there and lay it over the letters and trace them. Then remove them from the wall and bring them and the phototex back to the office and put the letters on the phototex pattern and then poke them through to get the pin locations.

 

[Chuck Peterson]

Gemini can't make drill patterns for plastic letters after they leave the factory. The studs are not always in the same spot.

 

[Marlene]

you'll have a trip over to remove then shop time to take out all the studs and put in new and to make a drill pattern then the trip back. depending how far away, the take down, clean, make new pattern and re-install might end up being the same or more than new and the install.

 

[skyhigh]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gemini has the pattern on file. If not, that would be the worst of the job. ( time consuming )

Removal won't be too bad with a little finesse and a pry bar. As for cleanup, if they come out of the holes with the silicone goo, then they will go back in.

Those letters are pretty durable. And I doubt there would be any fading after 2 years

 

[Billct2]

I've done many, and it's only bad if they're really old and brittle.
Just gently and evenly pry off the building (we always install with an offset),
take a variety of implements for this.
Make a paper pattern ahead of time if you can.
If not bring some paper and make a tracing after you take them down.
Take out the old studs, (I would replace them anyhow).
Put stud stumps with a point on one end in the letters, line it up on the pattern and press.
Tape the pattern in place and install as usual.

 

[Brandon708]

I did this onsite. Very doable

-Remove letters
-Clean silicone off of wall and around holes
-Apply paper pattern (or clear laminate liner) to wall where you just took off the letters at. ( Helps if your paper has a level line drawn through it)
-Feel with your fingers where the holes are and mark hole (easier to mark with a marker on clear paper)
-Transfer new pattern to new wall
-Drill
-Re-silicone letters

done.

 

[Speedsterbeast]

Gemini does NOT offer the paper pattern after it's left the factory, as mentioned here, so I will have to redo the pattern. That will probably be the most challenging part, since I've never done it.
It sounds like the job will be close to what I've imagined in my head though.
...multiply 50% of estimated cost and 200% of estimated time like all of my jobs

Thanks All!

 

[Brandon708]

Gemini does NOT offer the paper pattern after it's left the factory, as mentioned here, so I will have to redo the pattern. That will probably be the most challenging part, since I've never done it.
It sounds like the job will be close to what I've imagined in my head though.
...multiply 50% of estimated cost and 200% of estimated time like all of my jobs

Thanks All!

Read my post above.

I made my pattern out of clear laminate liner. I taped it up over the holes after I removed all the letters. Just dot all the holes with a marker. Very easy.

 

[Z SIGNS]

When your time becomes money

My quote for a job like this would be.

x amount for taking the letters down and using one of the above methods to re-install.All of which are some good methods.
A lot could go wrong doing this as opposed to just getting new.

or New letters and fresh pattern.
Moving the old letters would only be slightly cheaper for the customer.Only to make them feel happy.

They are just cheap plastic letters and really have nothing to do with the cost of making this job happen.
If they were some precious, polished, pricey bronze letters well than yes.
You are still doing the same amount of work and time,if not more.

How much cheaper could it be?

The only discount we could offer for moving the old letters would be the price of the letters .....which is cheap compared to the labor which is not cheap.

 

[rossmosh]

1. If the letters won't pop out, sawzall the studs and simply replace them after you're done.

2. Digitally reproduce the layout and print it out on your choice of media. Plain, cheap, white paper should work fine. I would print just the outline to save ink.

3. Put in some short/pointed studs in the letters.

4. Put cheap foam behind the paper and put the letters carefully down pushing the studs through the paper, into the foam, thus marking the holes.

5. Continue the process until you're done.

Also, just so everyone knows, as far as I know, Gemini does all of their stud placement basically after production. It's hand placed by their workers. It's not computer stored. I asked them about it because I found it baffling that they randomly locate the studs on acrylic letters when they could just as easily mark it with the laser and then just drill out the marked spots. Seemed so backwards compared to what I would do.

 

[visual800]

Ive also removed, sometimes with good luck sometimes not.

I use a old saw that slides behind them IF they are not stud-mount
On stud mount Ive used a small flatbar. Its aggravating to try and NOT break one

If its stud mount you can always go back with just pads, everything doesnt have to be stud mounted, that would eliminate a pattern for drilling, but if you need a letter pattern just lay them out on plotter paper

I do warn that IF we break we are not responsible and just offer to reorder all OR repait all when new comes in so they all match

 

[Moze]

I did this onsite. Very doable

-Remove letters
-Clean silicone off of wall and around holes
-Apply paper pattern (or clear laminate liner) to wall where you just took off the letters at. ( Helps if your paper has a level line drawn through it)
-Feel with your fingers where the holes are and mark hole (easier to mark with a marker on clear paper)
-Transfer new pattern to new wall
-Drill
-Re-silicone letters

done.

This is how I've always relocated letters. It's the easiest and most accurate way.

 

[blufftonsignguy]

I didn't read all the way down, but thought I would give my 2 cents to help. If you ordered/did the job in 2014, Gemini has the file for a mounting pattern. If the letters are faded etc., that's a problem for Gemini also. While I have never had any issues with a Gemini product, I feel sure they will stand behind their word of guaranteed for life. I would confirm they have the file still and charge for that. The letters should pull off fairly easy as long as you don't try and use too much pressure.

In 2014 I did an = installation of white 15" Minnesota letters from Gemini into vinyl siding / wood.
I used silicone for the studs.
They are asking me to quote removing them and relocating them to a new location.
I spoke to Gemini and they said it is often done.

My concerns are:
-Breaking the mounts and or letters
-Fading of the older letters if I need to replace any. (White north-facing should not be too bad though)
-Making my own paper pattern for the stud holes. ( I've never done this)

I'm thinking of giving an estimate only (not a quote)
For a range of being able to salvage all the letters to having to supply the whole batch.

Any advice if I may be missing something, or from experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[signcrafters london]

Assuming it is a standard Gemini font and not a custom logo -- Gemini has all their fonts available for download from their website. Download them and you'll never have to buy a pattern from them again.

Determine the letter size. Download the fonts. Make the pattern before you ever leave your shop. As others have said, stud placement is not uniform. You'll have to place the letters on your pattern and mark studs by hand on-site.

Attached is a photo showing the tool Gemini uses to mark their studs after the letters are made. It's one of their standard studs, shortened with a sharp point. On the right in the photo is the one that comes from Gemini; you can make your own, like we did on the left, by taking a standard 10/24 stud and grinding it to a point.

The hardest part of the job will be removing the letters without damaging the building, especially if you used an aggressive silicone or other adhesive. I've had jobs where they came out very easily. I've had others where the dryvit was badly damaged.