Need Help Client requesting files

[bayviewsignworks]

We recently had a client where a new advertising person came on board and now doesn't want to work with us. They had some bigger jobs and we sort've understood but then we saw what the new company had done and we could've done it in our sleep.

So I get this all sweet email "Hope all is well - can you send us some files." I already charged her for some of them but not enough I'm sure.

I think the files would be going to the new sign vendor so we're just going to ignore the request.

Or, do I reply and say "We'd love to help you as long as you will place an other. Please send a PO" or something like that?

 

[Billct2]

Been discussed a hundred times. To help avoid this in the future add a disclaimer to all orders "All artwork is the property of XYZ Sign Co. etc." As far as this client goes you have to make a judgement call, if you think you may get them back continue to sell them the files, if you think they are gone for good politely tell them to pound sand

 

[Gino]

This question comes up all the time on s101.

If you've never explained your company policy with the new or old contact, ya really can't hold the files hostage. If they didn't know they hadda pay for them, it's not good business to do it now. However, as you said, you have been paid for certain files, so it seems, you owe it to them, regardless of what you think they're worth at this point

 

[bayviewsignworks]

Sorry for the repeat post. Not sure if they are gone for good. They requested a lettering estimate a month or so ago but haven't heard anything back. They were good payers. We were hoping this person might've moved on! We'll ignore it for a while and see how bad they need them.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

For me, the key thing is, did they actually pay for the files or did they pay for your labor to create them (some think this is one and the same and it really isn't)?

Now, the 2nd key thing is were they aware that they paid you just for your labor or for the files? Most end customers (in my experience) think that it's one and the same and it really isn't. However, if your customers weren't told this, then that could go either way.

If customers aren't aware of how things stand before they invest in the work, then it is very much a grey area situation.

 

[neato]

Not sure if they are gone for good. They requested a lettering estimate a month or so ago but haven't heard anything back.

So they know your work, but now suddenly requesting an estimate? They're gone. At least until someone new comes on board.

I personally would send them a price to prepare all the files and send them. You can't work for free, especially for a client that's so quick to drop you.

 

[fresh]

Nobody ever pays for files unless its explicit on the invoice.

You can send them a low res jpg of the finished artwork. I mean, any sign company worth their salt should be able to reproduce a layout.

 

[bayviewsignworks]

Some of the files were designed by an ad agency then we format them for our use. We'd obviously charge for labor. We did get some money out of them for another project's files and I explained to her how we know they're taking the files to another vendor and that there is a cost attached to it. This time she didn't even offer to pay. I'm just doing the passive aggressive thing and ignoring her for now. We typically keep our customers so we don't have many issues like this. We do have a disclaimer but that really only applies to artwork we create or alter significantly.

 

[neato]

Nobody ever pays for files unless its explicit on the invoice.

If a customer contacts you for regular graphic design work and you bill them at your normal design rate, then yes they should be able to have the final print ready file once the project is approved, that's a given.

I have a customer that is constantly losing files, having computer crashes, changing computers etc. He's always asking for files of work I've already done and sent the files for. I charge him every time he asks for the file again. It takes time to open a file, convert to outlines, save as a print ready PDF. I won't work for free.

Now if it's a good client who rarely asks, I have no issues with sending them a lost file now and then.


I just feel it's different for signs. A sign design is part of the overall project. They're paying for the sign as a product, the design is part of producing that product. If they want that design later so others can profit off of it, bill them at least a minimum for the file. And if you never charged them for the design, bill a premium price to cover that design time and the file.

 

[fresh]

If a customer contacts you for regular graphic design work and you bill them at your normal design rate, then yes they should be able to have the final print ready file once the project is approved, that's a given.
.

We don't do a lot of straight graphic design work. 99% of what we do ends up on a sign or other product we are supplying. If we design a logo and charge a fee for it, file transfer is part of the deal and is stated on the invoice.

 

[Sindex Printing]

I only released files that have been paid for in full if the customer asks for them. I only provide 100% vector art print files.

I have sent editable files to other shops if they send the request for the file. We are all trying to support ourselves and our families and they will usually return the favor

 

[visual800]

Some of the files were designed by an ad agency then we format them for our use.

IF you redid these files for a vector use so you could produce signs I wouldnt send her a damn thing, let her sign company deal with it. All it takes is one new person to mess up a good relationship

 

[rossmosh]

You have three choices.

The first is to give up your files and move on with life. Life is too short.

The second is to simply say "Our company policy is not to release print ready files. I apologize for the inconvenience."

Third, you can charge some sort of fee to release the print ready artwork.

At the end of the day, it's all about how you want to run your business. Personally, if I'm in this situation and they're only asking for 1-2 files, I'd send them some proof quality artwork and call it a day. If they asked for better, I'd say something like "This is all we can provide at this time." That way the other shop has some reference to what was done but they're still going to have to put effort forth into getting the job done.

The reality is, one of the major benefits of this type of business is the repeat business because you have the layouts on file. It makes the customer's life easier because they know you have everything setup and ready to go. You like it, because it's faster than setting up every job and you've done the hard work of getting everything figured out and setup the first time.

 

[brycesteiner]

You could just tell them they are in a proprietary format and they would have to have very expensive software to access the files, so they are probably worthless to them.
Then follow up to say you could send them a JPG so that way they can use it in MS Word.
Then they would either accept and understand or they could come out and tell you straight out it's for a competitor, which I doubt they would do.

 

[2B]

so you didn't do the design work, but you did modify the design provided to produce the product?

If that is the case, eagery aggree to help and send back the EXACT(S) file that was provided to you.
whoever they are using can figure out what is needed and how to make the design work.
This way if/when anything is said, you can offer your services again, stating that you didn't have any issues using these files and reference the completed work so they know it was done by you.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

If the intellectual property belongs to the client, it is best practice to forward it to them. If doing so takes more than 10 minutes or so, it may be appropriate to charge for your time. Contact them with your proposal.
If you own the intellectual property, then give them a price or say you prefer not to share the files. Or just share the files. Who knows what that could lead to.
I maintain all rights to everything I create until we have negotiated a transfer of rights or licensing agreement. Typically on a sign, I will license the use of the artwork for the duration of that signs useful life. For other artwork I may negotiate a limited rights package. For logo and branding designs, I will typically assign all rights to the client (they will usually insist on it unless they are uneducated about copyright protections, in which case I will try to educate them).
I generally do not send clients mechanical or vector art we create during the process of making a sign or other tangibles. If the client wants it, we will negotiate a price.
There is a lot more to copyright and fair trade practices. The Graphic Arts Guild publishes a handbook of pricing and ethical guidelines that is used throughout the industry. I would advise getting a copy.

 

[rjssigns]

so you didn't do the design work, but you did modify the design provided to produce the product?

If that is the case, eagery aggree to help and send back the EXACT(S) file that was provided to you.
whoever they are using can figure out what is needed and how to make teh design work.
This way if/when anything is said, you can offer your services again, stating that you didn't have any issues using these files and reference the completed work so they know it was done by you.

This ^^^^

I've also told clients I'm not an archival or "cloud" service.

 

[shoresigns]

What do you have to gain by holding files hostage from a client that has gone to another vendor? Do you think that will result in them bailing on the new vendor and coming back to you?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I dont have these art disclosures on my proofs. If a client sends me their trademark how do I have the right to say "it's mine". And if I'm designing something for someone, they have paid for that time.

You could say that if customer needs a copy of the file used for production, that costs XX amount.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

If a client sends me their trademark how do I have the right to say "it's mine".

The file that they sent (of which they already have a copy of, otherwise how could they have sent it) is theirs. The file that was generated in order to produce a physical good is mine. Unless it is stipulated in a contract that all files generated during said production go back to the original holders. If no stipulation has been given, then the production file is mine. Doesn't mean that I'm going to use it for other customers not related to said company, that right isn't mine.

And if I'm designing something for someone, they have paid for that time.

Paying for the time and paying for the rights are different things. If the end product is supposed to be the file, then after everything has been settled up, it's the clients including whatever rights were given. Typically even when I design a file that goes to the owner, I still retain the ability to advertise that I did that design work (if I wanted to, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't).

If I've designed something that is for a finished product and the finished product is the only thing stipulated as being given to the client, they paid for the time that it took to create the design, digitize it and all the other consumables that were used in the production process, but my contract is fulfilled with they get that physical good(s) and only that.


Now, I will say this, even if I give them my production files (the ones that I actually use for production, not just me saving it into a different format to make things difficult for them (I'm not too fond of when people do that)) when it isn't stipulated, most shops aren't going to be able to use them. Typically they don't have the software to make it usable for the machine. Now, these are simple txt files that one can read in Kate, Gedit, NotePad, TextEdit (or whatever it is in the Mac OS), but it's a little more involved getting that to the machine so it can use it.