CMKY/pantone Sending artwork for outsource digital printing

[ColorCrest]

One thing I wanted to add is to know that you can only hit about 65% of Pantones with a digital printer.

From my experience, digital printers since the 90's have been able to reach far more than 65% of Pantone colors for print. Epson says Pantone themselves has certified certain printers / inks into the 90 percentile. What raw resource colorant (pigment / dye) would be exclusive to Pantone and not others?

 

[ColorCrest]

Never design solely in raster program.

Many shops have designed solely in Photoshop and other raster apps since they've been available. Solid understanding of some basics is all it takes to do so effectively. Resolution being one of the basics.

 

[myront]

Many shops have designed solely in Photoshop and other raster apps since they've been available. Solid understanding of some basics is all it takes to do so effectively. Resolution being one of the basics.

And when it comes time to cut vinyl from the raster photoshop file it becomes a matter of art time to create a cut line. Or your raster design gets passed through and ends up needing to be broken apart, rearranged, recolored etc. what then?

 

[ColorCrest]

And when it comes time to cut vinyl from the raster photoshop file it becomes a matter of art time to create a cut line. Or your raster design gets passed through and ends up needing to be broken apart, rearranged, recolored etc. what then?

Cut files are a not a design function but a mechanical art or production art function much as a RIP step is. At most, designers may provide cut layers in a PSD or TIFF file but it’s up to sign shop to determine how they need to process certain elements for their machines.

 

[ColorCrest]

RGB color spaces can certainly be used to help produce vivid colors but don't exclude simple CMYK color spaces because certain four color spaces can be even wider in places than the typical RGB spaces and more conformed to the wide color gamut of the printer and inkset. Epson, Roland, and maybe others offer such working spaces.

(More later with visuals.)

The attached animation shows three ICC color working spaces; Adobe RGB (1998), EpsonWide_Ver2, and U.S. WebCoated (SWOP) v2. Rendered as a wireframe is the A98, next (ghosted) is the EpsonWide, and the center (smallest) is the SWOP color space. Especially notice how the Epson space conforms to much the same CMYK shape as the SWOP space, only much larger. Also notice how significant areas of the Epson space fall beyond the large Adobe space.

The visual is just an observation and not necessarily an endorsement of any color space which might be "better" to use as working space for design files because other important factors might be involved.

 

[J40]

As you can see, color has a lot of facets to it. Lots of good advice above. One thing I wanted to add is to know that you can only hit about 65% of Pantones with a digital printer. Some do better than others of course but the point is that there are limits you will bump into once in a while and managing customer's expectations about that will relieve you of a lot of stress.

This is why the colour book matters...PANTONE to CMYK ...it gives you a glimpse into what the may be out of gamut before you start designing...if the CMYK representation in the book is way off there...it will likely be way off in production...

 

[ColorCrest]

This is why the colour book matters...PANTONE to CMYK ...it gives you a glimpse into what the may be out of gamut before you start designing...if the CMYK representation in the book is way off there...it will likely be way off in production...

But not in sign production using modern large format printers, which the Pantone swatch books do not represent.

 

[Bill DiStasio]

Hi signs101 members,

I'm looking to outsource some digital prints in the future and I was wondering if I am going the right way about this. I'm currently teaching myself how to design graphics in photoshop/illustrator by myself as I want to function as both the graphic designer and installer for my customers (unless they provide the artwork, which in some cases may need to be retouched regardless)

My question is about color output; I plan to get a Pantone color bridge guide to match the CMYK colors from my artwork in photoshop/illustrator and then provide the Pantone colors to my print supplier. I know that it's a lot more complicated than this but am I thinking about this the correct way? Forgive me, I'm new to the idea of digital printing and graphic designing but this is what I want to do. Thanks.

Id be interested in helping and learning in the process. Send me a message if you like.

 

[binki]

If your printer is dong 4 color pross then you need the bridge. If they are mixing colors then PMS. Just ask and they will tell you.

 

[StephenOrange]

What's your ink set? Is is really just cmyk, or do you have more colors in your ink set, like light magenta, light cyan... ?

Light colours don’t really expand on the colour gamut. It’s actually intented for smoothing out the lower ranges of certain colours so it either doesn’t clip the colour or print it very grainy. Now if your printer uses a hexchrome system, which is not likely, then you’ll be dealing with an output device with a wider colour gamut. These systems mostly use hexachrone orange and green inks. This definitely expands colour gamut if setup correctly.
The best is to check with the print provider and try and stick with them. Consistent colour very much depends on a consistent supplier.
I see a lot of “supply in RGB” remarks quite often, but I don’t agree. For pleasing colours on only photos this advice holds some weight, but if you want accurate screen to print to library results, stick to CMYK.
Oh, and don’t forget a good mid to pro range monitor that is properly hardware calibrated.
Colour matching is a dark art, so don’t get sucked into it too much.

 

[StephenOrange]

It's important to know that light magenta or light cyan don't extend or increase color gamut. The two only help to create a better quality rendition of smooth gradients, skin tones, and the like. Inksets using orange and / or green or some others can certainly help to increase color gamut, however.

Haha, I just posted practically exactly the same remarks. Nice to see someone that else understands this.

 

[ColorCrest]

I see a lot of “supply in RGB” remarks quite often, but I don’t agree. For pleasing colours on only photos this advice holds some weight, but if you want accurate screen to print to library results, stick to CMYK.

It's not enough to specify "RGB" or "CMYK" without reference as to which color space version, exactly. Just recently, Pantone states their CMYK guides are now calibrated to exacting G7 standards and they mention the highest level of three G7 standards, which is CRPC no less.

 

[ewded]

My short answer is, if the printing inkset is more than CMYK, you should be building in RGB, as it has a wider color gamut, which can be reached better with a 6-9 color inkset.
Edit to say, ask your printer what their inkset is, and what they suggest.

You should check your facts Boudica,

1. printers print somewhere between CMYK and RGB color space, even though your inks are called "CMYK" - I know it's confusing but try to print a photo directly from rip and then imported to a cmyk file
2. extra color inks like light magenta, light blue, orange, gray do NOT extend color gamut but complements it - I tested it and saw no difference other than accurate gray gradients and smoother skin color

 

[StephenOrange]

You should check your facts Boudica,

1. printers print somewhere between CMYK and RGB color space, even though your inks are called "CMYK" - I know it's confusing but try to print a photo directly from rip and then imported to a cmyk file
2. extra color inks like light magenta, light blue, orange, gray do NOT extend color gamut but complements it - I tested it and saw no difference other than accurate gray gradients and smoother skin color

You’re very mistaken. A properly profiled hexachrome system (including a capable RIP, driver, workflow etc) absolutely widens the available gamut on a CMYK+OG printer. The light colours are mostly there to smooth out tonal ranges, but orange and green have a greater function.
And your statement about printers working between a CMYK and RGB colour space shows a misunderstanding about colour management and output intents. It’s like saying your car drives somewhere between a speed of 0 and 100, but then not providing any further details.

 

[ColorCrest]

1. printers print somewhere between CMYK and RGB color space, even though your inks are called "CMYK"

They do not "print somewhere between CMYK and RGB color space." They print in their own space (CMYK or CMYK+) and some may very well print beyond a given RGB color spaces in some areas.

2. extra color inks like light magenta, light blue, orange, gray do NOT extend color gamut but complements it - I tested it and saw no difference other than accurate gray gradients and smoother skin color

"Light blue" is a new one to me. Orange does, in fact, extend color gamut.

 

[ewded]

They do not "print somewhere between CMYK and RGB color space." They print in their own space (CMYK or CMYK+) and some may very well print beyond a given RGB color spaces in some areas.


"Light blue" is a new one to me. Orange does, in fact, extend color gamut.

What an arrogant prıck you are

 

[ColorCrest]

You should check your facts Boudica

ewded, maybe follow your own advice?

“Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.”
– Mark Twain