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CNC Router recommendation

Simonsigns

New Member
I'm looking for suggestions on what router to buy. I am looking to use it for cutting acrylic, acm, aluminum and 3D routing sign foam. Edge finnish and accuracy is very important. Speed is not important as we aim to handle high end projects as apposed to volume. We don't need a knife or camera, we are on the fabrication end of the sign business. Budget is in the $60,000 range. I am currently leaning on the Shopsabre Pro 510 with more options or the Shopsabre IS 510 with less options. Any recommendations on Brands and must have options would be appreciated! Thank you!
 

johnnysigns

New Member
I don't think you could beat ShopSabre for that price range and the options it affords for $60K. I'd think an AXYZ or Multicam with apples to apples options would be more, but it's worth exploring. We run a 5x10 based AXYZ at our place. Whatever you do get a tool changer and take a deep dive looking at the Vectric software options. We run V-Carve Pro, but we're largely cutting flat parts that we build out for our display components although I think it would work great for layered sign foam projects too.
 

johnnysigns

New Member
I thought the difference between the Pro and IS versions were speed based mainly pertaining to wood or other materials you can process at high feed rates. The larger diameter compression tooling for wood or wood based products can be run very quickly depending on the diameter or tooling and the sheet thicknesses. I thought the Pro will max out at 1000 IPM and the IS is 2000 IPM, but the tooling you're going to use is going to dictate your max speeds which will fall well under both those marks for acrylic, ACM, aluminum or sign foam. An example is cutting 1/4" thick acrylic parts - we can't run crazy fast speeds cutting acrylic because the tooling is going to dictate that we have to run 150-250 IPM depending on the diameter of the tool and the thickness of the sheets we'll be cutting. If you're not familiar with feed rates for CNC tooling, I'd take another deep dive online into that as well.
 

Simonsigns

New Member
I thought the difference between the Pro and IS versions were speed based mainly pertaining to wood or other materials you can process at high feed rates. The larger diameter compression tooling for wood or wood based products can be run very quickly depending on the diameter or tooling and the sheet thicknesses. I thought the Pro will max out at 1000 IPM and the IS is 2000 IPM, but the tooling you're going to use is going to dictate your max speeds which will fall well under both those marks for acrylic, ACM, aluminum or sign foam. An example is cutting 1/4" thick acrylic parts - we can't run crazy fast speeds cutting acrylic because the tooling is going to dictate that we have to run 150-250 IPM depending on the diameter of the tool and the thickness of the sheets we'll be cutting. If you're not familiar with feed rates for CNC tooling, I'd take another deep dive online into that as well.
Thank you Johnny for all that info. I did take that IS off my radar today and I am planning on going with the pro with auto tool changer and a bunch of other options. They include v carve Pro with it.
I got a qoute for the multicam apex R1. They have enroute as a line item for $100 per a month. I dont know if v carve works with it??The qoute didn't line item all the options the shopsabre did...so was hard for me to compare to two side by side...
 

Simonsigns

New Member
Thank you Johnny for all that info. I did take that IS off my radar today and I am planning on going with the pro with auto tool changer and a bunch of other options. They include v carve Pro with it.
I got a qoute for the multicam apex R1. They have enroute as a line item for $100 per a month. I dont know if v carve works with it??The qoute didn't line item all the options the shopsabre did...so was hard for me to compare to two side by side...
Forgot to mention Multicam does include a tech coming down on-site to set up the router and would teach me how to use it...which I think would be very valuable...
 

dennis j

Premium Subscriber
We purchased a ShopSabre Pro 510 with quite a few options a little over a year ago. Great machine very happy with it.
 

Simonsigns

New Member
We purchased a ShopSabre Pro 510 with quite a few options a little over a year ago. Great machine very happy with it.
Dennis, I'm just about to pull the trigger on this. Is there any options that you recommend that you can't do without? And any options you took that you feel u could have done without? Ty!
 

dennis j

Premium Subscriber
I had a Gerber 408 before so it was pretty easy to figure out what options I needed or wanted. Hybrid t-slot vacuum table with phenolic top, 10 position auto tool changer, Calibration touch pad, popup locator pins, Dusk dock & wireless control. I also went with a 15 hp Becker Pump.
 

johnnysigns

New Member
Wow that's a lot of power for startup. We're using a Busch Mink pump with our AXYZ and it's been pretty tough. It was flooded under 36" of water for roughly 5hrs during some flooding and we got it back online and functioning without sending it in for service. It was starting to lock up from rust building up inside, but we got it freed up and we manually spun it with ATF transmission fluid in it for several hours. We got lucky on the electric motor. That cleaned up really well from the rust buildup in there.
 

Simonsigns

New Member
I had a Gerber 408 before so it was pretty easy to figure out what options I needed or wanted. Hybrid t-slot vacuum table with phenolic top, 10 position auto tool changer, Calibration touch pad, popup locator pins, Dusk dock & wireless control. I also went with a 15 hp Becker Pump.
Just signed off on it today took all the options you mentioned. I think the Becker pump on my qoute was 17.7 hp
 

Simonsigns

New Member
I got a IS612 a bit over a year ago. I got nearly everything except the knife and digitizing probe. I could do without the remote pendant, it's fine, just not as needed as I thought. I wish I had the 10 tool ATC, just for having extra redundant bits to speed up broken bit changeouts, but with the automated tool measurement, it would only save 1 minute per change out. The 2,000 IPM travel is fantastic, but a little terrifying if coming from something several generations ago! Great for punching mounting holes and stuff, but in reality it only moves marginally faster than the Pro series due to feeds/speeds, like Johnny said. Make sure you're getting the larger spindle and mister options for aluminum cutting, the set of tools they sell signmakers are fine, though I've only truly utilized 3 of them.
Also I think the Becker pump is superior to the FPZ for a warmer climate. NJ may not have the issue, but they don't want the relief valve to intake air above 104F, which in an enclosure with the sun on it here, 104 isn't hard to hit. I never looked into the Becker pumps, but I believe one of the techs mentioned in passing they were fairly bullet proof, where the FPZ is sensitive to temps. We already had to ship out FPZ to the factory to get rebuilt when its intake pulled in the hot exhaust and caused some scorching on the turbine.
Also the 25hp FPZ draws 900 amps at startup. Nobody told me this... We spent $2k in hardware plus electrician costs to make that connection.
Would the larger spidal you mentioned be the 10hp? I think it comes with the atc? I don't remember seeing another upgrade option. I did take the mister like you mentioned.
 

johnnysigns

New Member
I actually wish I had a stronger vac pump. I don't think you'll be disappointed with that Becker. I'm pretty sure our Busch is only 11hp. We had a much smaller FPZ that we ran our old Gerber Sabre with, but it would be well undersized for a 5x10 table like we're running now.
 

Simonsigns

New Member
I actually wish I had a stronger vac pump. I don't think you'll be disappointed with that Becker. I'm pretty sure our Busch is only 11hp. We had a much smaller FPZ that we ran our old Gerber Sabre with, but it would be well undersized for a 5x10 table like we're running now.
I have to purchase a switch for the pump. Would yiuvhappen to know anything about good place to get that?
 

johnnysigns

New Member
I have to purchase a switch for the pump. Would yiuvhappen to know anything about good place to get that?
Our Busch pump came with the magnetic shutoff box, but I can see if it has any specs on it. An electrician should be able to help, but I'll check if there's any info they sent me or on their box.
 

johnnysigns

New Member

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dmp

New Member
We were thinking of getting a shopsabre IS-510, what did you think about it? How was install? Did you need any kind of training in house or was it all through online?
 
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