Need Help Color Black, 100% k vs CMYK Black

[Ed. C.]

Hello, first time posting.
I am doing a bit of research to identify how to approach an issue that we have been dealing with for years. We use too always color correct the color black to x cmyk values to get a nice rich black from the rip to the printer, (color correction at the RIP station)
In my believe I think the color correction should be done in design or in prepress. Design seems to always choose a black from the pallet swatch that is in the design software, witch for some reason it relates in the RIP with the values of cmyk as 0,0,0,100.
Witch looks really washed out on our flat bed printing department. Some of our customers are also sign shops and they provide their own art work. Some do come with the same black color issue. we normally wont touch our reseller's art since they are the provider, it is a lock and load strategy for fast turn around. We do pride our selves with the great quality and fast turn around service.
My question to you is, what is a logical process for this type of issue? should prepress color correct at file set up, should we color correct on rip, and should we take the time to make a customers issue right by touching their art and fixing this type of issue?

Please advice!

 

[Solventinkjet]

I'd keep your policy of not messing with the reseller's art but maybe email them and let them know that black will print better using whatever CMYK values you have found print best on your printer. They could then just create a swatch with those values and add it to their swatch books.

If you want to go fancy, most RIPs have a color replacement function these days. You could set it up so whenever it sees CMYK 0,0,0,100 it would revert to whatever you want it to.

 

[rjssigns]

Fast turn means educating the client regarding specific file requirements including profiles. Your equipment also has to be profiled. You will still have to preflight to make sure those requirements have been met.
Educating the client virtually eliminates having to color correct prepress or touch supplied files.

I haven't had to do any of that work in a long time but I would tell clients it's X amount first click then per hour after that. Funny how fast they would fix the file issues.

As far as black in we tell students 30/30/30/100 or Superhero black. Works great on the Indigo. YMMV.

 

[Johnny Best]

I do print work in Illustrator with rich black in preferences, RGB, 0,0,0 (printer RIP turns into CMYK) save as a .pdf and get a rich dark black without a problem. When I send files out to be printed by Signs365 or whoever, same good blacks come back.

 

[Adam Vreeke]

I also always prefer rich black if I am designing. However, the only time I switch over to rich black with provided artwork is if somethings are rich black and somethings are process black.

If you are designing in Adobe Illustrator you can always go to Edit > Preferences > Appearance of Black. And change your option to always output blacks as rich black (just saves a step).

And personally I use 60/40/40/100 as my rich black.

 

[dypinc]

Hello, first time posting.
I am doing a bit of research to identify how to approach an issue that we have been dealing with for years. We use too always color correct the color black to x cmyk values to get a nice rich black from the rip to the printer, (color correction at the RIP station)
In my believe I think the color correction should be done in design or in prepress. Design seems to always choose a black from the pallet swatch that is in the design software, witch for some reason it relates in the RIP with the values of cmyk as 0,0,0,100.
Witch looks really washed out on our flat bed printing department. Some of our customers are also sign shops and they provide their own art work. Some do come with the same black color issue. we normally wont touch our reseller's art since they are the provider, it is a lock and load strategy for fast turn around. We do pride our selves with the great quality and fast turn around service.
My question to you is, what is a logical process for this type of issue? should prepress color correct at file set up, should we color correct on rip, and should we take the time to make a customers issue right by touching their art and fixing this type of issue?

Please advice!

Question about your RIP. When output is sent to your printer and the input value is 0,0,0,100 is your RIP sending Color Managed K which usually is a mix of CMY+K or is your RIP send pure black? Most RIPs have a setting for sending pure primaries to the printer when that is set to 100% in the input file. That is something you need to determine before you look at other options for getting rich blacks.

Depending on the printer ink type being used If the pure black needs to be richer then you can look at adding percentages of CMY to the mix but again this should be done in the output values not the input values. What RIP are you using and have you checked if it has the ability to set output values to pure primaries and or rich black. Not all printers such as the HP latex printers benefit from sending output values of CMY with 100%K. In all my testing I could never improve on its blacks by send more that 100%K (pure primary) output value. Most other ink types can be improved on by sending rich blacks so that is something you need to find out for your printer and RIP output value settings.

 

[Ed. C.]

Question about your RIP. When output is sent to your printer and the input value is 0,0,0,100 is your RIP sending Color Managed K which usually is a mix of CMY+K or is your RIP send pure black? Most RIPs have a setting for sending pure primaries to the printer when that is set to 100% in the input file. That is something you need to determine before you look at other options for getting rich blacks.

Depending on the printer ink type being used If the pure black needs to be richer then you can look at adding percentages of CMY to the mix but again this should be done in the output values not the input values. What RIP are you using and have you checked if it has the ability to set output values to pure primaries and or rich black. Not all printers such as the HP latex printers benefit from sending output values of CMY with 100%K. In all my testing I could never improve on its blacks by send more that 100%K (pure primary) output value. Most other ink types can be improved on by sending rich blacks so that is something you need to find out for your printer and RIP output value settings.

We are using caldera for a Digitech Retrojet flatbed uv printer, our machines have been profiled for the best output possible in terms of colors and gradients is just blacks that come from our designers that give us a washed out black half the time, The idea is to speed thru the design process and the rip process and get straight to printing. with out having to play around to much with color corrections.

 

[Ed. C.]

We are using caldera for a Digitech Retrojet flatbed uv printer, our machines have been profiled for the best output possible in terms of colors and gradients is just blacks that come from our designers that give us a washed out black half the time, The idea is to speed thru the design process and the rip process and get straight to printing. with out having to play around to much with color corrections.

to my knowledge the rip is just sending 100k to the printer

 

[dypinc]

We are using caldera for a Digitech Retrojet flatbed uv printer, our machines have been profiled for the best output possible in terms of colors and gradients is just blacks that come from our designers that give us a washed out black half the time, The idea is to speed thru the design process and the rip process and get straight to printing. with out having to play around to much with color corrections.

If setting Preserve Pure Black is not rich enough then in Spot Color you should be able to set up output values for a rich black. Map 0-0-0-100 to 60-40-40-100 or what ever output value gives you the best black for that printer media combination. All this can be saved as a configuration that can be quickly selected.

 

[Mr. Signboy]

We are using caldera for a Digitech Retrojet flatbed uv printer, our machines have been profiled for the best output possible in terms of colors and gradients is just blacks that come from our designers that give us a washed out black half the time, The idea is to speed thru the design process and the rip process and get straight to printing. with out having to play around to much with color corrections.

I usually will modify to rich black in illustrator. If I ever have to reprint something later on I won’t have to remember if I made a change at the RIP or not. I also use caldera and have prime center. I know Prime Center will automatically convert blacks and I’m pretty sure caldera RIP will too.

 

[dypinc]

I usually will modify to rich black in illustrator. If I ever have to reprint something later on I won’t have to remember if I made a change at the RIP or not. I also use caldera and have prime center. I know Prime Center will automatically convert blacks and I’m pretty sure caldera RIP will too.

I hate it when people set rich blacks in the input file.

A lot more work is involved on the RIP to send rich black output to the printer when people do this. When reading 100K input I set the RIPs to default to sending rich black or pure black output depending on what setting looks best on that particular printer. When reading say 60-40-40-100 or any other combination, I have to intervene in some way and remap that value to the output values that print the best looking black, as any combination other the 100K will automatically be color managed by the GCR settings of the output ICC profile and will not produce the best looking blacks usually not even outputting 100K in the the output values going to the printer.

 

[Mr. Signboy]

I hate it when people set rich blacks in the input file.

A lot more work is involved on the RIP to send rich black output to the printer when people do this. When reading 100K input I set the RIPs to default to sending rich black or pure black output depending on what setting looks best on that particular printer. When reading say 60-40-40-100 or any other combination, I have to intervene in some way and remap that value to the output values that print the best looking black, as any combination other the 100K will automatically be color managed by the GCR settings of the output ICC profile and will not produce the best looking blacks usually not even outputting 100K in the the output values going to the printer.

I guess we’re using different equipment and RIPs, I have no issues doing it this way, and it’s really no extra work. What RIP are you using?

 

[dypinc]

I guess we’re using different equipment and RIPs, I have no issues doing it this way, and it’s really no extra work. What RIP are you using?

I use ColorGate and Caldera for the Wide Format and Fiery EX for the Digital Press. They all have a way to take 100K and turn it into pure 100K on press or to Rich Black but that is not want you want on the Latex printer for sure.

I just checked what the output value of 60-40-40-100 input was color managed to vinyl on the HP 360 and come up with 62-51-52-78, with BPC 71-62-59-91. Either one would look pretty bad when compared to 100K on the latex because of the limited ink densities but the BPC one would probably not look bad on some printers but I would not consider either one rich black at the output level. The Fiery EX will give similar results. I can get much better black by making sure the black prints at 100% and adding CMY if necessary. With a 60-40-40-100 input the only way to due that is the remap that at RIP level.

Of course if you want cooler or warmer blacks you can adjust you CMY mix.