Color Space

[Colin]

Like most of you know, I've been in the sign business for ~23 years, but am relatively new to the whole digital printing realm, and color management in particular. One thing I'd like to get my head around is "color space".

It seems like most people favour the AdobeRGB (1998) color space, as it has a wider color gamut over sRGB. So I'd like clarity on all that in terms of what I need to do with monitor, CorelDraw X5, Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop 5.5, and Roland VW. Oh, and as I'm into photography.....my digital camera too! (it has an AdobeRGB setting).

Although this guy is coming from purely a photography stance, I'd like to know what you think of what he says here.


Thanks.

 

[Terremoto]

Safest bet is to use sRGB. Especially true if you re-purpose your artwork for use on the web. Web browsers choke on artwork saved with AdobeRGB (1998).

 

[Colin]

Safest bet is to use sRGB. Especially true if you re-purpose your artwork for use on the web. Web browsers choke on artwork saved with AdobeRGB (1998).

Yes, the AdobeRGB-saved photo will look flat on a monitor, but all one has to do is to remember to save those images for the 'net in sRGB. Then again, that's a hassle. shrug

 

[idsignsil]

If you have access to the Roland webinars I would suggest the "Tips & Tricks - Principles of Color Management." It is very interesting and from what I can tell if you have a Roland you should be working in AdobeRGB.

http://www.rolanddga.com/training/webinar/archive/videos.asp

 

[eye4clr]

+1 sRGB especially when you're working more from files you get from other people. It's more about simplicity here. Converting incoming sRGB to AdobeRGB, or for that matter converting incoming CMYK to AdobeRGB gains you nothing but an extra conversion in the process.

If you're the one doing the design and creation, there can be some advantage to running with AdobeRGB. But you'll always have to have one workflow for files you create and a slightly different one for those you get from others.

Personally I'll always choose the simple choice when I have to choose between a tiny bit better performance vs much simpler process.

 

[Colin]

If you have access to the Roland webinars I would suggest the "Tips & Tricks - Principles of Color Management." It is very interesting and from what I can tell if you have a Roland you should be working in AdobeRGB.

http://www.rolanddga.com/training/webinar/archive/videos.asp

I have taken in a number of the webinars, and recall them just saying "You should use AdobeRGB" without going into the whys & wherefores, or the ramifications to other aspects of computer use such as photography. I'll look into that further though - thanks.

 

[Colin]

But you'll always have to have one workflow for files you create and a slightly different one for those you get from others.

...

 

[eye4clr]

It makes me cry too. In fact that looks alarmingly like me.

And that's why everything here, with only 1 or 2 expections, gets handled as sRGB or US Web Coated SWOP. Incoming RGB that differs gets converted to sRGB on open and off we go. Same for CMYK to US Web Coated SWOP.

There are valid arguments for what RGB space is "best". But what works best for use day to day is what's best. Not what space has the most color potential.

 

[Colin]

Hmmm, so how do I wade through this comment by Josh Loring:

This is an icc problem. Your canon is default srgb. Your PC is srgb. Your Roland is confused as its pc is srgb and it's icc render is whatever joke you've been told to set it.

You need to default your pc to adobe1998 by installing the profile. Then, default your printer PC to the same ICC. Adjust your Roland to custom adobe 1998 and perceptual.
Then.. Set your color settings in adobe bridge to adobe 1998, and sync all adobe programs.
Then. Open your canon default print settings and set the profile to your newly installed PC adobe 1998 icc.
All fixed..

 

[Bly]

Except most rgb art you will receive will be srgb which already has a slightly smaller gamut.
Simply changing it to adobe1998 won't increase these files' gamut so there is no point.

 

[eye4clr]

Hmmm, so how do I wade through this comment by Josh Loring:

Wow, with a machete it seems.

First off, we're talking about the "Working Space" of a file. This is the embedded profile in the file that tells the world what the actual numbers for RGB or CMYK really mean. A given set of color numbers will actually be a different color when it's associated (assigned) with different working spaces.

This is an icc problem. Your canon is default srgb. Your PC is srgb. Your Roland is confused as its pc is srgb and it's icc render is whatever joke you've been told to set it.

The computer doesn't have a working space. It has a configuration for the monitor profile but this plays no role in your print workflow. None, zip, nilch, nada. If you're using a proper RIP, then your printer is not considered and RGB device and is treated like a CMYK printer. If you're using a desktop printer and the free driver that you'd download from the printer manufacturer then it's treated like an RGB printer.

You need to default your pc to adobe1998 by installing the profile. Then, default your printer PC to the same ICC. Adjust your Roland to custom adobe 1998 and perceptual.

If you have current Adobe products installed on your system you have sRGB, AdobeRGB, and many others onboard. In your RIP, you'll want to be sure the Input Profiles are setup to sRGB and US Web Coated SWOP. You may have to move them from your workstation to some special folder in the rip's file structure to have them conveniently appear in the RIP interface. Using Perceptual intent isn't a bad choice and is a good safe place to start.

Then.. Set your color settings in adobe bridge to adobe 1998, and sync all adobe programs.

This is valid and should be done as well as the policies for handling profile mismatches on open. You should set this to give you a message so you know you're opening something that doesn't match your current working space. When you get the dialog when a file opens, choose to CONVERT.

Then. Open your canon default print settings and set the profile to your newly installed PC adobe 1998 icc.

Not applicable.

 

[JoshLoring]

Eye4clr has great advice for you Colin. In fact, he pretty much broke it down right but I will clarify this statement:

The computer doesn't have a working space. It has a configuration for the monitor profile but this plays no role in your print workflow. None, zip, nilch, nada.

The computer does have a working space that tells the monitor how to present you colors. Since your computer and rip are the same computer- if you want "what you see is what you get", you'll need to set your computers icc to the icc you use on the end rip. (srgb or AdobeRGB1998)

Please note that with adobe products, you get these srgb/1998/swop profiles and others... BUT, they are available to adobe settings/saving and NOT installed to your computers core ICC viewing. You must copy them manually and set through your monitors graphics card.

With that said, the computers icc profile does play a part in what you SEE. Not zip, nilch, nada as said above. With the limited gamut of srgb, you need an adobe1998 monitor to really see this icc work.

As an avid photographer I use adobe1998 for all of my cameras/CR2 Raw files & large format printing. Although.. Anything I upload to the Internet I use "save for web" and convert to sRGB which is the standard for web viewing.

 

[BPI Color]

I do some work that stays in the RGB side of things for output. I preflight for the color profile and then rip accordingly. Hey, I'm not here to rebuild my client art except when I have to. One of the weird issues I've stumbled on is a phony sRGB IEC61966-2.1 embedded profile. Digital photos with that profile don't print reliably when RIPped with that profile. So far, what works is to convert (not assign) to Adobe RGB 1998 for output.
Personally, I believe that there's too much variance in drivers, RIPs and devices to adopt a silver bullet approach.