Colorado 1650 advice wanted on purchasing

[Think Big Printing]

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing a Canon Oce Colorado 1650 and would like advice/feedback from existing users.

We print mostly SAV, Banner, Poster etc - so general signage materials and usage.
We tend to do a big variety of small-run jobs so lots of media changes.

I've done a reasonable amount of research and so far they look like a great machine, but I'd like to know the following:
1. Is the ink usage they promote correct (7ml / m2 or $1.72 / m2) based on ink cost of Au$245/Litre?
2. Do they use much ink in the automatic maintenance procedures?
3. How much media is wasted with every load / unload or a roll?

Any other advice is also appreciated.

We are currently using HP Latex but have experienced various issues especially with varying length of panels on wall graphics and issues with and issues with high temperature creating problems with media.

 

[Bly]

We've got one. They are great printers.
Changing rolls is so easy you won't believe it after the latex.
I haven't tracked ink usage as precisely as some but initial reports showed the cost was a little higher than Canon's estimate but not much.
It really is quite frugal with ink.
Some media does need to enable the tension bar which will waste around a metre but most media will load with very little waste.
Print lengths and colour are really consistent.

You will need to have Canon tech support quite handy in case of issues - we've had a few since it's a new model.

 

[Think Big Printing]

Hi Bly,

Thanks for the info.
We're located in Tassie and there are no Techs here - we normally fly them in from Melbourne which at the moment would be a problem due to the border restrictions.
with the media that you need to use the tensioning bar - what types are they eg lighter films or heavier banner?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

After 9 months of usage, I can tell you its a great machine but... Ink consumption is about 2x our Latex, the payoff is roughly 2.5x the speed.

Wrapping is very possible with a skilled installer who limits overstretch. Media waste is minimal, about 2in total and tail end will print to the last 6 inches.

 

[Think Big Printing]

After 9 months of usage, I can tell you its a great machine but... Ink consumption is about 2x our Latex, the payoff is roughly 2.5x the speed.

Wrapping is very possible with a skilled installer who limits overstretch. Media waste is minimal, about 2in total and tail end will print to the last 6 inches.

Which Latex are you comparing the ink usage against.
We are looking to the 1650 as a replacement for our HP365 and going by Canon advice the ink usage on the 1650 should be about half which equates to approx half the cost.
If I compare the 1650 to our HP1500 Latex then the ink cost will come in at approx the same cost, but the changeover time and wastage involved blows the costs out.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Latex 365 and 570. It is not the case on all files, but the vast majority of what we were printing is showing double the ink.

Prime example is we print camouflage patterns in 2 pass on Latex and Max Speed on the 1650, the ink usage is 1.14ml/sqft vs 2.95ml/sqft. This is just Black and White printing. On our largest clients fleet graphics job it is 2.1ml to 4.4ml. Both of these jobs we have literally run hundreds of rolls in comparison.

Canon has been ZERO help in solving this and profiling is difficult due to 15+ mins of color settling after printing.

 

[Bly]

Apparently there's a new simpler way of profiling - I'm getting trained next week.
We have profiled about 6 of our media and they are using less ink than the canned profiles.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Based on the total cost of ink we’ve actually put in (obviously not used it all yet - I wouldn’t trust the onboard computer for ink consumption as not sure if that includes maintenance) divided by the actual printed sqm we are running about £0.58/sqm on our 1640. Which equates to about 1.06 AUD.

Naturally that probably just means that we don’t run as many high coverage jobs as some. (We were quoted about £0.80/sqm by canon) but we have run a fair amount through the thing.

Obvious benefits are easy roll changing and you can hold 2. You can start printing on about the first 5mm of the roll (providing you don’t use the tension bar) with no problem so you can save a lot of media compared to most printers.

Downside to that is that once the media comes off the core when printing near the end of the roll, the printer stops printing (will cure whatever it’s already printed) but that means there’s usually about 0.6m - 1m at the end of the roll that’s wasted, especially if you’re using roll 2.

Biggest benefit has to be speed and colour consistency. If printing on High quality or better, It automatically monitors the nozzles and corrects any banding. (That’s still 40sqm an hour) but we run most poster jobs/health and safety signage on production which is about 60sqm an hour.

We’re obviously not comparing to a HP but this thing is light years ahead of our old mimaki. When we got the Colorado we didn’t really need the speed, but we have definitely grown into it and the thing runs about 12 hours a day most days. We’d have had to turn a lot of the bids we’ve won down without it.

theres still a few quirks with the 1640 and I’m still fully convinced that The 1640 and the 1650 were not ready for market when they brought them out. All in though I would recommend one. Just still not sure they put it at the right price point.

Remember if you get the 1650 a canon guy will try sell you their media. If they’re still giving the media voucher buy a couple rolls of the IJM614 as that’s the media they suggest using to do a print head calibration and an advanced nozzle optimisation. Doesn’t work with a lot of other media.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Apparently there's a new simpler way of profiling - I'm getting trained next week.
We have profiled about 6 of our media and they are using less ink than the canned profiles.

Can you send me the Info when you learn it. We have been profiling but it has increased consumption to get accurate color.

 

[zspace]

We have run a 1650 for almost a year. It’s fast, produces good prints and it’s easy to use. We use Onyx and haven’t built any of our own profiles as the ones from Canon seem to work on the materials we print (banner, wall paper, 3M vinyls). It sits next to an HP 570. My operator prefers the Canon for ease of loading and speed to print.

Bly said you should have a Canon tech handy. I strongly agree and recommend a service contract. We have placed service calls about once a quarter. The tech told us the last call required $10k in parts. Fortunately we have a contract and a good service team in our area. Our longest down time has been 4 days- 2 days for the tech then 2 days for parts.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Agree with the service contract also. We get one free print head a year (haven’t needed any yet) but they’re about £4k each. We also get a tech out within 6 “working” hours of a service call.

We do also run canon digital machines so they have to be extra nice to us lol

I forgot to mention the IQ of the printer also. If you set up a sheet and say you need 400 copies of that sheet. You set up one sheet in onyx, hit print, then in the layout copies you put 400 copies of that sheet.

One benefit to that is you only need to rip one sheet which saves loads of ripping time, two the Colorado counts the copies. Even if a roll runs out it’ll know it’s ran 16/400. Saves you just guessing like on most other printers.

 

[MercBlue]

We just installed a 1640, and iPrintStuff is correct!

It doesn't produce the media wastage that our Epson 40600 does. In fact, the only wastage I get, is when loading in a new role and cutting a clean edge.

Profiling is easy. Canon has a website that contains a bunch of media's that share similarity to most brands or types. Biggest trick is controlling the vacuum controls (4 zones) and media thickness. You want the media to move nicely across the platen, but at the same time not buckle - head strikes can be $$$$

The 1650 does matte, but the gloss inks of the 1640 are much more durable and I believe have a larger colour gamut.

The machine is expensive, but it's running costs are ridiculously low. I asked the national tech how often we should run prints through, for those times it's quiet. He said not to worry about it, just don't turn it completely off. I can't do that with our eco-solv!!

We didn't have a choice with regards to service. It was a must have!

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I can't do that with our eco-solv!!

We've had our 80600 off for 4 weeks while on holidays. First day back we ran a single "light" clean from the menu and every single nozzle was back to perfect.
I've spoken with Epson Australia about this and they said it's not a worry on the newer machines. They can handle being off far better than old machines.

 

[CanuckSigns]

We've had our 80600 off for 4 weeks while on holidays. First day back we ran a single "light" clean from the menu and every single nozzle was back to perfect.
I've spoken with Epson Australia about this and they said it's not a worry on the newer machines. They can handle being off far better than old machines.

Same, we close for 2 weeks over Christmas and when I come back a quick light headwash and a once over with a swab and our s80600 is ready to roll

 

[iPrintStuff]

That’s probably the way all the printers are going. Everyone wants to print 24/7 with minimal maintenance. We have to clean the Colorado once a month for about 10 mins. Other than that it’s all automated.

Can’t say much for having a quiet spell and it not running for anything longer than a weekend though lol. Looking forward to a quiet spell so I can get more profiles made. Only ones I have so far for everything are high quality.

 

[MercBlue]

Whoops! I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. Newbie mistake!! Don't get me wrong, I love my Epson, it has never failed me. I should never of compared the two.
However, since installing the Colorado, my Epson hardly sees any work.

Think Big Printing - Because of the 2 roll drawer, I keep my most popular media in deck 2, and swap out deck 1. The media rolls can be placed on the media drawer, which is at a nice height (I'm 6'). Getting heavy media's to deck 2 is definitely a 2 person job.

The Colorado also uses a funky method of measuring and calibrating media used. Media calibration marks are placed (either visible or not depending on media being used - but can be annoying if using a cutter with marks registration also) I believe this also helps with double sided printing, which was enabled with the last firmware upgrade (I haven't had a chance to try that yet!)

I was hesitant, really hesitant about buying this machine. It's a big investment, and because there are only a few of them out there, a big leap of faith to take on. I read ALL the forums, and scrutinized everything from some of the above contributors. It fit the business model I was after. Do your due diligence. I'm very happy with our decision.

 

[Tim Miller]

Decent machine. It wastes a lot of material if you are switching out media a lot. Get your supplies somewhere other than Canon. Their prices for gloves, filters, swabs, etc., are outrageous.

 

[Pauly]

Decent machine. It wastes a lot of material if you are switching out media a lot. Get your supplies somewhere other than Canon. Their prices for gloves, filters, swabs, etc., are outrageous.

Not sure why you're answering a year old thread....
And also, where do you see material waste with the colorado? when it literally starts printing right at the start of the stock.

 

[Tim Miller]

Not sure why you're answering a year old thread....
And also, where do you see material waste with the colorado? when it literally starts printing right at the start of the stock

I like to think before I post
Regarding material waste, primarily at the end (especially with the two rolls). Also, every new material has to be calibrated, which is a couple more feet. And it's terrible with fingerprints, which leads to some waste. Plus you can't use the full width because of the tracking at the sides.
The length is dead on, though, and that's great for tiling jobs.

 

[Pauly]

I like to think before I post
Regarding material waste, primarily at the end (especially with the two rolls). Also, every new material has to be calibrated, which is a couple more feet. And it's terrible with fingerprints, which leads to some waste. Plus you can't use the full width because of the tracking at the sides.
The length is dead on, though, and that's great for tiling jobs.

Barely 2m of waste using the 2nd roller. it's about. 1m - 1.5m max waste. but you said if you're switching out media a lot? that doesn't waste anything when you're switching between stocks.
Calibrating the stock... big deal. do it while creating a media profile - It's apart of printing.
Full width, well you can turn the advance media correction off if you want. it really doesn't take up that much room. And who prints full width anyway? You'll just get overprint on the platten anyway and cause you issues, especially if you're doing long runs.