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Suggestions Computer to Computer

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by Baysidejim, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. Baysidejim

    Baysidejim New Member

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    Hello everyone. I've been a sign painter and done some vinyl lettering for over 30 years. Recently purchased an HP L26500 Latex printer. I was told by a guy at the shop I bought it from that it's better to have a designated computer just for running this machine. They included that computer in the price. I have my main computer that I run Corel Draw on and also use for cutting vinyl. What is the best way to send artwork files to the Digital Print computer for printing? That computer is running Onyx 10. Thank you for any help!
     
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  2. Solventinkjet

    Solventinkjet DIY Printer Fixing Guide

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    Network the computers. If your internet modem has multiple lan connections you can just connect both computers to that and then create a shared folder that you just drop the files into. If you don't have a multi port modem then you can go buy a switch for cheap and hook things up that way.
     
  3. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I too would network them, but I would make sure that neither computer has access to the outside WAN (internet). Keep production computers off the outside network.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Solventinkjet

    Solventinkjet DIY Printer Fixing Guide

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    How did I know this would be the next comment!? Agreed
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. jc_0125

    jc_0125 Graphic Designer

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    I second shared drive or a switch
     
  6. Dan360

    Dan360 Member

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    You can create shared hot folders for your quicksets and drop the files in there, that way it kicks them right into Onyx rather than having to manually import.
     
  7. TXFB.INS

    TXFB.INS Very Active Member

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    as stated need to network.

    we use a NAS and switch. this keeps the production computers off of the internet
     
  8. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    ;)

    This is how we do it here. NAS, switch and no incoming internet signal within the production computer network. Computers that do get the outside world are on a different network.
     
  9. Baysidejim

    Baysidejim New Member

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    Thanks everyone. I only have 2 computers now. My main computer that I have been using for years as my personal computer and also for cutting vinyl with. I like having internet access on that one but want to set up the second computer specifically for running the printer. Would the NAS switch accomplish this?

    Thanks for all your help! Hopefully soon I can be on the giving side instead of the receiving...
     
  10. Dan360

    Dan360 Member

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    NAS (network attached storage) and switch are two different devices, you'll need a switch so you can network the two computers together so they can communicate.

    You can turn off internet access and leave local network access on the RIP computer if you don't want it connected to the internet, there are tutorials on how to do it online.

    You may be able to do it all through your router depending on your router.
     
  11. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Unfortunately, if there is a shared folder on a computer that does have internet access, that may/can still be used to affect the NAS and the production computer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    I believe the fears about connecting a production computer to the internet are somewhat unfounded. Granted, Windows 10's update process could lead to some issues every year when the big update happens, and occasionally if a security update causes a problem, but most of the problems that you read about with these updates involve systems which are running very specific network configurations or custom business software.

    The big problem with being on the internet is what the computer user is doing on the internet, i.e. email, browsing, social media, as entry points for malware and viruses and phishing scams. That requires discipline on the part of the user, as well as not automatically doing every update that comes along willy-nilly.

    The idea of having a dedicated RIP computer came about when computers were not as capable as they are now. But that hasn't really been relevant for at least a decade. I've always used my main workstation as the RIP computer, and have never experienced slowdowns because I use multicore processors with high speed and lots of RAM, as well as SSD's. And even though I moved to Windows 10 pretty much as soon as it was available, I have experienced no issues from the updates that come in regularly.

    That said, your best safeguard against rogue updates is daily automatic backups which can be used to bare-metal restore your system. We do ours through a Microsoft Homeserver, but it can be done through NAS (network attached storage) as well.

    For the OP, you need to network the computers and have a shared folder on the design computer to which you export your eps files for the RIP computer to import into Onyx.
     
  13. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Rolling release OSs (doesn't matter what the brand is and Win 10 is a rolling release) are not good for a production environment. With big updates twice a year and really not a good bug testing protocol, updates causing issues for those happy few users are bound to happen.

    My dad has had an issue with Win 10 on every friggin' major update release and he doesn't run anywhere near the niche software that we do. His only point of contention would be is that he does go for the more bleeding edge components (ones that forums are still a couple of months out on tips and hints on how to set things up and troubleshooting). Windows also doesn't have a very good track record with updates/upgrades over the years (I've been using Windows since the DOS days when I was a little kid up to 8.1 (on my own computers), still run Win 98, Vista, 7 and 8.1 in VMs for nostalgia) and that's actually to be expected with the copious amount of hardware/software combinations. It's hard for them to get it right. Even Apple doesn't always get it right (release of High Sierra and the root login issue comes to mind) and I have far less sympathy for them due to the locked down nature of that hardware/software.

    Security updates should not be a problem in updating. Where updating gets to be a problem is when you have features being implemented or removed. Some program that you may be using that depends on an older API, no longer works because the newer API doesn't support it (or vice versa). That's on MS' schedule, not yours on when that happens. And I don't know of a way to keep new feature release/removal from happening without using 3rd party scripts (which has it's own security concerns).

    If Win 10 allowed for only setting up security updates and nothing else, I would be that much closer to still being on a Windows rig, between that and the telemetry (I know some people could care less about the privacy aspect of it (right or wrong), but compiling and deploying said telemetry does affect computer performance (it's doing a lot of it), as it doesn't always do it during the down time either) are what have made me jump ship from Windows.

    Here is the biggest problem with Windows updates, the users are still at the mercy of MS actually fixing an issue if they do fix the issue (and on their schedule). Look at how long the last major update took for them to get right. Since we are talking about NASs, wasn't there also an issue with some users not being able to access their network shares? If that happened to me, that would be a show stopper until MS got it fixed. The more involved the setup, the more the worry.

    As to if the concern about production rigs is unfounded or not. How many threads have been on here where users have done an update and something no longer worked? Be it a Win update or a software update? Sometimes a user was able to fix it on their own by rolling back, sometimes they had to wait for a fix.

    To me, it's not so much if it's unfounded (as there are real issues that have happened out there), but how risk adverse are "you" and how much of a risk do "you" believe that there is for it to happen on "your" setup.

    This is a huge part right here. The human component is the biggest, the biggest thing. Unfortunately, with regard to updates, sometimes those are forced on a user. I no longer know of a way of disabling Win 10 updates as all of those avenues have eventually been plugged up by MS. That leaves 3rd party means (scripts etc). Not so much on trusting those.

    People's experience will vary of course. I only have to deal with one Win 10 computer and that has been a pain in my butt since 2015 (components have changed over those years).

    Proper backups would mitigate a lot of the issues that people deal with. Updates, malware/ransomware etc wouldn't be a thing if people just did proper backups.

    It doesn't always help on how Windows handles permissions as well. Making things easier for the end user comes with some sacrifices.

    Of course, not having those production sensitive rigs with internet access would preclude all that as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  14. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    Boy I hope they didn't charge you for that... Onyx 10 was released in 2010 and is at least 3 major releases behind the current version.
     
  15. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    Then how will the printer browse S101 for tips and tricks all day while printing?!

    Ours is connected to the network. Has been for 20 years. Only issue I ever ran into was updating Adobe illustrator.before cutting master was upgraded to work with it. Spent 30 mins rolling the install back... Not that big of a deal.

    Between our latex printing and our flatbed printing multiple sheets up... There's always downtime. I spend most of it browsing s101 or other related sites. I'd go crazy without the internet at work.

    If you k ow what your doing... Being connected shouldn't be an issue, I find the inconvenience of no internet a lot bigger than the inconvenience of performing a roll back, even if the whole O/S needs to be rolled back.

    To each their own, though. It's a matter of preference and importance.
     
  16. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I never said to go without internet, I'm talking about keeping things separate.

    Again, I'm not saying to go without internet, I'm talking about keeping things separate.

    Also, "shouldn't be" is a key phrase. Not everyone catches everything, every time.

    How many on here actually think about hardening their IoT devices as well? Are they actually getting updated as much as one thinks? While most people nowadays think about keeping their desktops/laptops secure, not many think of those other little embedded devices that connects all those computers/production equipment to each other.

    While I can get a new OS (fresh install), current updates, and then my portable programs all setup in 30min (most of this is scripted, so I just run 1 script (that script eventually tells another script and so on to get everything done, but I only have to personally run one and let it go) if something were to happen, that's 30 min that no production happens. I hate to have to do that with a Win install as I don't remember a fresh install was ever just 30 min.

    I don't mind 30 min on a computer that I do online communications with taking 30 min as there is always at least 1 going while the other is being loaded up, but on a computer running equipment or running software that creates files for the equipment, that's something else.
     
  17. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    IoT devices should be on a separate VLAN. Considering where they're all built, they should be isolated from EVERYTHING.
     
  18. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    How many do that with their own humble routers? Which ironically is also one of the most target IoT device out there as well.
     
  19. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    I'm not going to argue against not connecting it to a network is best practice.

    Especially if you don't know what your doing. A simple mistake can cause you to be down until you pay someone to come get you up.

    For us... We backup daily, and our machines get ghosted weekly. We can be back to a weeks old system within 30 minutes. which might suck... But I'm sure I save 30 minutes not having to walk to a second computer to get on the internet

    We used to have 3 pcs upstairs. One had all the old production files / programs on it... One controlled the graphtec... The other controlled our 2 printers via onyx. I thought that was insane... I consolidated all 3 pcs onto a new one.I Freed up so much space and now there's way less clutter.

    I prefer things to be... Compact. I run 2 printers 8 hours a day, graphtec, and do design work / modification.

    I also have a laptop with onyx on it that I can swap to if need be. There's other things you can do to prevent production computers from having downtime besides cutting it off from the internet. I prefer that route.

    Besides... Microsoft is getting worst and worst. They've slowly been rolling out network updates. Right now it's opt in... But in the future so long as your production computer is on the network... Internet connected or not... It'll grab the update from another windows computer on the same network.

    And as much as I'd like to get rid of windows,I hate osx and no way am I teaching the other production guy how to use Linux... Even for basic stuff like ripping. It's bad enough he comes up and asks me what "do you want to apply the system update" means on his phone every week
     
  20. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Depending on the issue, sometimes the only recourse is waiting on someone to fix it in an update or whatever, because of the nature of the system.


    I can't really see anything remaining opt in for long in a forced update situation.

    As to what's in bold, for this to work, even if what MS was doing remained opt in (I doubt it), the production network would have to be on it's own network, no computers with internet connectivity on the same network. Not many are going to want to do that, but realistically, that's the only way that I could envision it working or else why do it?

    How Windows handles permissions, sharing etc, it's just bad. Some of it does stem from MS trying to make things easier for the end user. Things get sacrificed in order to make things easier. Thankfully, it's not as bad as the 9x era, but some of it's still there. And this is actually giving them the benefit of the doubt.


    I'm not a fan of Mac either, particularly as it is now. I actually liked (and was a fan of) Windows until this last OS (and it's not actually the OS itself, but how MS does things with the OS, if that makes sense).

    Linux is not as hard as people think that it is. But if "you" aren't able to make the switch (doesn't matter if it's software reasons or whatever) or "you" don't want to/aren't willing to try to learn the new paradigm (even going to Mac has that issue, my dad was fixin to toss his brand new iMac in the trash after 3 wks of owning it during the Vista days, he hated it, he isn't too fond of Win 10, but he is unwilling to change to something else (if he couldn't have handled it about 10 yrs ago, he isn't going to be able to handle it now)), it's not going to work out well. Since I actually went Linux, I've enjoyed my computers a lot more. Just had more control. It's not for everyone though. However, contrary to popular opinion, my rigs (2 office ones are actually rolling releases (one Debian and one Arch) have not had one issue, compared to my dad's Win 10 rig. Now, to be fair, both of those only get security updates. Not the full monty (my programs are all portable, I don't use programs through the package manager, so they wouldn't get updated anyway), so that helps with stability.

    If your guy is really like that and that's not an exaggeration, then after thinking of him as a "human element vector", changing him to any system may be problematic.
     
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