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Computer to show proofs

klingsdesigns

New Member
So I will be moving into and office/shop in December. I will be designing and printing in the shop part. I will have my wife in the office and designing there. Thinking about mounting a tv or monitor to the wall to show customer designs and then have a wireless mouse and keyboard to control it. What is the easiest way to do this. Either screen mirror her computer to see hers, or use team viewer to show mine. Otherwise I thought of having a shared folder, then save the file. Go to her computer and open the file and then have it on a mirrored screen. Trying to make everything as easiest and professional as possible. Also I want to have it so I dont get distracted and she can help out the customer as much as possible.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I'm for not showing proofs on a computer in person. If they are coming to your shop, print it out and show them so they can write down the changes and not sit there with you while you design. You open up a pandora's box of options for them when it's open and easy to change this and that and see how this looks and on and on.
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
Yeah, you're opening up a can of worms. I've made the mistake a couple times of letting someone look over my shoulder while I make a "quick change" and it turns into an ordeal very quickly.
 

eahicks

Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
I'm for not showing proofs on a computer in person. If they are coming to your shop, print it out and show them so they can write down the changes and not sit there with you while you design. You open up a pandora's box of options for them when it's open and easy to change this and that and see how this looks and on and on.
1,000,000X this
 

tager_rot

New Member
I'm for not showing proofs on a computer in person. If they are coming to your shop, print it out and show them so they can write down the changes and not sit there with you while you design. You open up a pandora's box of options for them when it's open and easy to change this and that and see how this looks and on and on.

Man oh man I am soooo glad I read this today! I have been doing this all wrong and not realizing the issue! I have a dual monitor setup and show proofs "on the fly" and I have had some LIFE SUCKING nit pick sessions.

I'm bout to go put this second monitor on craigslist!

Thank you!!!
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
Man oh man I am soooo glad I read this today! I have been doing this all wrong and not realizing the issue! I have a dual monitor setup and show proofs "on the fly" and I have had some LIFE SUCKING nit pick sessions.

I'm bout to go put this second monitor on craigslist!

Thank you!!!

Haha! I would never get rid of my second monitor (so useful), but I definitely try to limit how much of my monitors a client can see (preferably none).
 

myront

Dammit, make it faster!!
I agree with everyone else. If we do have to do a sit down/over the shoulder guess who is standing over the customer's shoulder. My boss aka the owner of the business.
We have a countertop touchscreen monitor that shows samples of work done and also a font list but that's it. We have it setup as an ongoing slide show.
 

2B

Active Member
currently, we have a tablet that we can access the NAS with, from there we can pull up the latest version for review.
at that point, if there are edits, the edits are written on the work order and then placed back into the design queue for the designers to make the needed changes when that work order comes back to the top of the rotation.
If the latest proof is approved, it is printed off and they sign the physical copy

we did try the process of designing with the customer standing there, using dual monitors that were a mirror imaged.
as soon as the design file was opened we started an on-screen timer and charged $1 per minute for the duration the file was open. the customer was more focused on the timer and would freak out at the cost once the design was finally approved.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
My clients will get either an email or print out (mostly email) of a image (.jpg) of an a4 piece of paper with my company name on it, their name on it and the image they're getting printed. There's also a disclaimer saying "this is a preview only, colour representations may differ from final product" due to the fact of viewing on mobile phones or non calibrated screens. I can happily hard proof it for them on my printer.

I will only ever sit down with a major clients (repeat work consistently) if they're working on something for them self.
 

klingsdesigns

New Member
These are all good points. What about the customer that wants something quick, or boat registration numbers? I feel like that would be nice to just design there quick easy $40-$60. I do like the idea of having something printed think that is the way we will go. Also having a tv in the entry office with slide show and what not would be a nice touch. Do any of you have samples of your proofing paper work that you show the customer?
 

DerbyCitySignGuy

New Member
These are all good points. What about the customer that wants something quick, or boat registration numbers? I feel like that would be nice to just design there quick easy $40-$60. I do like the idea of having something printed think that is the way we will go. Also having a tv in the entry office with slide show and what not would be a nice touch. Do any of you have samples of your proofing paper work that you show the customer?

If you're doing boat numbers or DOT numbers or anything like that, you shouldn't have to do too much proofing. "Are these the right numbers?" should suffice.

You can still get something to someone quick without having them looking over your shoulder. A piece of paper works just as well and the customer can make notes on it that you can keep in their file as a CYA if necessary ("See, you wrote right here...").
 

Marlene

New Member
These are all good points. What about the customer that wants something quick, or boat registration numbers? I feel like that would be nice to just design there quick easy $40-$60. I do like the idea of having something printed think that is the way we will go. Also having a tv in the entry office with slide show and what not would be a nice touch. Do any of you have samples of your proofing paper work that you show the customer?

I would have the proof in print or approved by e-mail as when they claim you screwed up the numbers, you can show them the proof that was OK'd. It only takes a second to produce a proof that can be signed off on or e-mailed for approval. If you want to just show them on screen as it is a quick job, have them sign off on something that they approved it and that would work too. The real danger in letting a customer near a computer is they want to help design and that's no good for anyone.
 

klingsdesigns

New Member
Good to see everyones comments. The main reason we are moving is to have more room and be more organized. So all the info helps on how to be professional and yet time saving tips. Now we have customers stop by and stay for 30 mins or longer and that takes up most the day.
 

myront

Dammit, make it faster!!
We do a png file for email proofing and also a print for the "job jacket". Png's are smaller than jpg and doesn't usually get rejected by email police. We used to have a company letterhead sheet we'd drop the png onto then send out as a pdf but that went away after upgrading software


upload_2018-5-9_16-34-17.png
 

#racewraps

@printwithspeed
yes print it only! NEVER let a customer think they can sit there all day and play "change the art" game all day

We previously had a wall mounted tv that would scroll thru images of our past work similarly but I wouldn't touch the let them watch me work thing with a 100' pole. Whether this is / was your intention or not I feel like its an open invitation or many customers might assume so at least. Never ends well. Everyone quickly turns into an art critic. :mad:

Good luck, looks like some great feedback coming in on this so far!
 

signbrad

New Member
I'm glad to see we are all agree on this topic.

I agree up to a point.
After I find out what a client is looking for, I like being left alone to come up with a layout. I will often do an A and B version, especially if I can give them something better than what they had in mind. Depending on the budget, I will sometimes do a good, better, best set of drawings.

The problems always occur after the initial concepts are presented. Revisions and tweaks can eat up lots of time and long strings of emails, especially if your shop does not have a stated policy charging for revisions, or at least limiting them. I have found that by having a client come in and sit down with me to implement their changes, I can often quickly conclude the sale. In fact, sometimes it's fun.

When I work on a drawing in front of someone, I use it as an opportunity to teach, which I enjoy. I always explain what I'm doing as I do it—and I explain why I'm doing it. I explain why margins are important, why negative space is not wasted space, why all caps are harder to read. I explain that when you squish a letter to try to make a three-inch letter out of a two-inch letter, it becomes harder to read, not easier. I often explain what a design hierarchy is or why I always try to create groupings of design elements. I can show them in person why red touching blue is usually a mistake, and how outlines usually do not improve legibility but rather compromise it. I can say, "Well, this may look good on screen, but from across the street?" and I can zoom out to show them how it doesn't work well from a distance.
Often when a client requests something in particular that I know will be weak, I ask "Why do you want to do that?" They usually don't have a reason. Then I explain why it might not be a good idea. I use kindness and tact always. I praise their ideas when possible but I can often win them over quickly by simply showing them how a weak look compares when it's viewed side by side with an improvement.

I view every encounter with a client as an opportunity to give them (and the salesmen who are listening) at least a small amount of enlightenment. The sign buying public is woefully ignorant of principles of good design. And not a small segment of the sign industry shares this ignorance. If we have studied and learned good practices in design, then explaining design principles to others, both clients and fellow workers in the industry, is of great benefit. Because—the single greatest problem in the sign industry today, with the exception of depressed pricing, is the overwhelming amount of poor design work being produced by shops of all sizes.

There is almost an obsession with "fonts." Yet the letter styles we use do not have as much impact as how we put the letters together in a layout.
"Kerning" is important, but line spacing is just as important as letter spacing. Crowded layouts with distorted letters seem to be the norm these days rather than the exception, resulting in amateurish-looking and ineffective sign work. And some people see such sign work and think, "Heck, I can do that!" And so our role as professionals is trivialized, and we have thus contributed to our own problem.

Mike Stevens once said:
All sign makers fall into one of two categories.
There are those who depend on the ignorance of their market for their success.
Then there are those who are trying to inspire and educate the market. Because they know that their long-term success depends on educated and discriminating buyers.

...............................


Obviously, we can't teach a course in design to every Joe that walks in off the street. But we can, when appropriate, educate our clients little by little. This is easiest to do in person. Of course, it means we have to be quick on our feet, sometimes. We need to know design principles, and our design software, thoroughly. It requires good selling ability in addition to design competence. And we will not reach everyone. Our clients, many of them, are like little children, bless their hearts. They just don't know. And often they don't know they don't know.
We must educate them. Our long-term success depends on it.
 

fresh

New Member
I have a tv monitor on the wall next to the front desk. I can't recall a time where it backfired. I use it mostly when I have a client who needs minor changes and its just easier for us to do them together. 95% of the time, we proof through shopvox.

Or we use it when I've done tons of jobs for a client and we need to go back to one for whatever reason. Its easier to just pull it up and make sure everyone is on the same page. This happens all the time and its so much better than having someone stand over your shoulder.

AND i also use it when new clients come in because I always look up the property on google maps. It makes it easy for us to know what we are looking for. Its great.

If a client starts asking me to do all sorts of tiny changes, I tell them I will send them a proof later that day, I can't do it while they wait.
 
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