Computer upgrade question?

[landdesigns]

Looking to upgrade my computer ,the computer I have now works fine but when designing and doing a large digital prints( just did a print of 72"x90") it doesnt seem like it can't handle it, very slow and programs seem to not work right. I added some memory last year, helped but not enough and also the computer is 6 years old.

I have noticed a few members build their own computers and Signburst builds computers for the sign and wrap applications. i'm not sure what i should be looking for lots of memory, certain kind of processor, video card type , etc...

I checked out Dell, which Im currently using and have experienced no problems with , Dell lets you customize the computer you need and offers financing, but is going with dell, gateway, Hewlett Packard etc. a bad Idea?

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Using Roland Versacamm vp300 and Roland cutter

 

[FrankenSigns.biz]

Get a Mac!

 

[shadi75]

macs are nice but too expensive.

i got custom build pc that i built my self two years ago, asus mother board quad core q6700 4 gigs or ram and just a 1 gig video card.

also i m using window 7 ultimate that i m starting to like i had xp for so many years i got used to it but i had to upgrade at some point. I m very happy with it, i did some large graphics and the ripping was fine. Just sometime i feel i could use more ram when i got too many applications open.

I honestly was going to buy a dell studio and i should of. building this pc two years ago costs me close to 1000 at the time they were all expensive parts, for that much money i could of bought a nice dell with an lcd.

i think for you an dell xps studio with i5 or i7 cpu is good 8 gigs of ram and 1 tb hd and your good.

HP is good too but they use low end parts in some of there models

i personally like Intel processor and Asus mother boards, i tried the amd and didn't like them much but its just an opinion.

 

[Mosh]

and also the computer is 6 years old.

We get a new system every 9-12 months. Seriously what you have, if you go to Wal-Mart and get a $800 HP will BLOW the thing you have away! I know all these techies on here will bash me, but I will gladly compair bank statements with them any day and and sure I will win! Wal-Mart it is!

 

[Williams Signs]

I have a custom PC with similar specs to yours except with a Intel Extreme board. I just bought a Mac G5 Dual Processor 2.5 with 1.5 Gigs of memory and it is as fast as my PC. It is handling things just fine. If you are running CS 4 you need a G5 it will do wonders for you.

 

[Mosh]

UUHH, it is a SIX YEARS OLD system! End of thread! Three years old is TOO SLOW!!!!

 

[GAC05]

Mosh - what year is your vette?.......

wayne k
guam usa

 

[briankb]

I agree about getting a Mac. I have a MacBook Pro at home and like it a lot. You can save a TON of money on a Mac by ordering a one generation behind refurb http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac I got my Macbook Pro for about $1,500 after they released the newer models. It was still selling new for almost twice that amount.

But we are a Microsoft shop so we just just built a workstation for one of our graphic designers to replace a 2.5yr old machine that was too slow. We spent about $1,300.

CPU had a Windows Index Score of 7.6 (out of max of 7.9)
Video Card had a score of 7.1
Hard Drive was 5.9 (which is avg for 7200 RPM drive, and it was mirrored set)

The thing that will make the most impact are:
8gb DDR3 Ram
Windows 7 x64 (to use all ram)
Adobe CS5 (running Photoshop in 64bit mode)

Here were the components that I purchased from Newegg.com and Amazon.com

I made a wish list on NewEgg.com public with the components
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13043451

• Antec DF-35 Case - $140
• Antec 750w Power Supply - $170
• ASUS Motherboard P7P55D-E - $160
• Intel Core i7-870 2.93ghz - $285
• G.Skill Ripjaws 8gb - $105
• Gigabyte 1gb Video Card - $150
• nMediaPC Memory Card Reader - $24
• Western Digital Caviar Black (x2) (RAID 1) - $65ea
• Arctic Silver Thermal Compound - $10
• Microsoft Windows 7 Pro x64 - $140
• Logitech Wireless Performance Mouse - $60
• Logitech Access Keyboard 600 - $25
• Adobe CS5 Master Collection Upgrade - $1,200?

We didn't upgrade his existing monitors (Samsung 24" widescreen ,Samsung 204B 20" x2)

If you have Amazon Prime you can save about $30 on shipping vs ordering from Newegg.com. Although some items are only available at Newegg.com like the zMediaPC reader.

If you have NEVER built a PC before I would find a friend that has or call your local pc guy and ask them to help build it at your office. You should be able to get it assembled and Win7 installed with updates in about 2-3 hours.

I would not buy a Dell or any other box unless you are spending around $3k. With the case, power supply, and other components I purchased we can keep this machine going and replace or upgrade parts as needed.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[Edserv]

We use a Dell Quad Processor running Windows 7 (with a sh*t load of ram for our primary rip station (using flexsign 8.5 and Adobe CS3)) and it hums. It crunches, rips, and prints most times in seconds. It's crashed twice (but we have a great back-up system, which I would recommend like crazy) because no matter what os you're running you're going to experience server and hard drive failures.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

We get a new system every 9-12 months. Seriously what you have, if you go to Wal-Mart and get a $800 HP will BLOW the thing you have away! I know all these techies on here will bash me, but I will gladly compair bank statements with them any day and and sure I will win! Wal-Mart it is!

HP blows

 

[Locals Find!]

A cheap fix for speeding up an older slower computer is to back up your important files. Reformat your entire hard drive. Reload your OS and Programs fresh. Leave your files you not currently needing backed up on externals (more than one for safety).

This will clear out all the garbage that builds up over 6 years you don't even realize is there. Also, most local computer shops worth anything can usually disable large chunks of your OS that don't actually do anything. Windows XP and Vista is full of this stuff. Lots of processes that run that were test beds for the original design team that no one ever bothered to clean up before going to full production. These can really eat up your processing power and your ram.

I do this on my system once a year and its 4 years old and running strong. Its an old Compaq with a 2.1 processor and only 4 gigs of RAM. Yet it runs true and runs circles around even some newer PCs just for this reason.

Whether starting fresh or doing this to an old one the advice stays the same. If your buying a box pc before even unpacking it have a professional wipe the drive and reinstall your OS then give it the above tune up. Most box computers come loaded with extra crap that will slow you down from day one. (Especially DELL)

 

[visual800]

what adtechia said!

wipe it clean and had anther hard drive to the computer is what I did. Keep all files on the added HD and keep your operating system HD freed up!

 

[choucove]

The option to start from scratch on an existing computer can be a very viable one so long as you know or have someone else that knows how to properly set it all back up to run as efficiently as possible and can transfer your pertinent files back over properly. However, this does take considerable time and if you're hiring someone else to do this, it may be cost prohibitive. Here's why: When I have a customer that just wants me to reload everything on their computer, it takes about 1 hour to back up the entire system (clone onto separate hard drive) then another hour to reinstall the OS (usually Windows XP which can take a long time to install on older systems) and then another two hours of fine-tuning settings, installing drivers and necessary applications. And finally another hour of transferring data back onto the computer. In the end that's 5 hours of labor and a total bill for the customer of $200 and they're not really getting anything new for that, just a fresh reinstall. Now, if the computer is relatively new then $200 is probably a small part of it's total value so it's worth it. However, if the computer system is six years old, such as the computer Landdesigns is using here, then most likely it is going to be more cost efficient to use that $200 towards new hardware. New hardware will jump you several generations of technology forward from six years ago as well as offer brand new warranty coverages and fresh hardware.

As stated elsewhere, I always have recommended going custom for a computer because without any doubt you will get better quality and better performance for the same price if not cheaper than buying anything from the big brands (Dell, HP, Acer, etc). However, many still wish to purchase from the big brands and if so I just have some very big points for you to consider that can make your experience with them enjoyable or absolutely destroy your opinion of them (like has happened to me.)

First, if you are buying from Dell or HP be sure that you stick with their Business line of computers. Most of the times the computers in their Consumer (home) line of products are very cheaply built using the slowest components possible. This means that while your new Core i5 system can use the latest in DDR3 memory up to and above 1333mhz speed, Dell will instead throw in DDR3 1066 with very high timings which will actually slow the rest of the entire system down all to save a couple bucks. Same can be said about the hard drive, offering, "...a staggering 1.5TB of hard drive space" but using a low speed hard drive (5,400rpm vs. the standard 7,200rpm) with a very small cache (8MB vs. the standard 16MB to 32MB) which will GREATLY reduce the entire system's speed. At least recently, I've noticed that the business line of their computers are beginning to utilize better quality and higher performance components.

Second, beware the power supplies! These companies will usually put a very low quality power supply into the computer that is just barely enough power to run everything in the system. Keep in mind that a power supply will slowly but inevitably lose some of its capacity to output its total wattage and you are facing a point where eventually your power supply will fail because it is not only poor quality but also eventually will not output enough power to run your system. The majority of the older big brand systems that I have looked at have power supply issues for this reason. If a power supply goes bad, it CAN destroy the rest of your system!

Third, sometimes HP and Dell in particular can be slow adapting newer technologies into their business line. An example is the Dell Optiplex line where there is still only one line of systems support the Intel Core i5 generation of processors. That means all the rest of their Intel-based platforms are still using the Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad generation platform which is now two generations behind the current industry-leading generation! Why spend big money on a brand new system that's running technology from more than four years ago?

And finally, if you're purchasing a system from any big brand company, limit your upgrade options when you're customizing it online or buying from the store! Here's an example. We recently purchased six Dell Dimension T1500 for the local library, which were to run a Core i5 processor and 8GB of DDR3 memory. When we were going through the customization options, the cost of upgrading the system from 2GB of memory (the default) to 4GB of memory was $80. The price to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB was $250!!! Now, I can go online to newegg.com and purchase 8GB of the highest quality Corsair or Crucial memory available on the market for less than $100, so why should you have to pay $330 for the same upgrade through Dell's site for cheaper quality memory? You can see the same thing when you begin upgrading hard drive space or adding hard drives, or when purchasing or upgrading video card options. It is absolutely theft if you begin configuring too many higher customization options directly through Dell instead of just getting the same thing identical but separate such as through newegg.com and add it yourself. Trust me, you will save a TON!

 

[LittleSnakey]

I would agree with this setup.
Definately whatever you do make sure you get 2 hard-drives in raid 0 array. Big time performance there.

I agree about getting a Mac. I have a MacBook Pro at home and like it a lot. You can save a TON of money on a Mac by ordering a one generation behind refurb http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac I got my Macbook Pro for about $1,500 after they released the newer models. It was still selling new for almost twice that amount.

But we are a Microsoft shop so we just just built a workstation for one of our graphic designers to replace a 2.5yr old machine that was too slow. We spent about $1,300.

CPU had a Windows Index Score of 7.6 (out of max of 7.9)
Video Card had a score of 7.1
Hard Drive was 5.9 (which is avg for 7200 RPM drive, and it was mirrored set)

The thing that will make the most impact are:
8gb DDR3 Ram
Windows 7 x64 (to use all ram)
Adobe CS5 (running Photoshop in 64bit mode)

Here were the components that I purchased from Newegg.com and Amazon.com

I made a wish list on NewEgg.com public with the components
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13043451

• Antec DF-35 Case - $140
• Antec 750w Power Supply - $170
• ASUS Motherboard P7P55D-E - $160
• Intel Core i7-870 2.93ghz - $285
• G.Skill Ripjaws 8gb - $105
• Gigabyte 1gb Video Card - $150
• nMediaPC Memory Card Reader - $24
• Western Digital Caviar Black (x2) (RAID 1) - $65ea
• Arctic Silver Thermal Compound - $10
• Microsoft Windows 7 Pro x64 - $140
• Logitech Wireless Performance Mouse - $60
• Logitech Access Keyboard 600 - $25
• Adobe CS5 Master Collection Upgrade - $1,200?

We didn't upgrade his existing monitors (Samsung 24" widescreen ,Samsung 204B 20" x2)

If you have Amazon Prime you can save about $30 on shipping vs ordering from Newegg.com. Although some items are only available at Newegg.com like the zMediaPC reader.

If you have NEVER built a PC before I would find a friend that has or call your local pc guy and ask them to help build it at your office. You should be able to get it assembled and Win7 installed with updates in about 2-3 hours.

I would not buy a Dell or any other box unless you are spending around $3k. With the case, power supply, and other components I purchased we can keep this machine going and replace or upgrade parts as needed.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[briankb]

Thanks Snakey!

You can do RAID0 to get a performance increase for sure. However if either drive fails you have lost everything. With current hard drives the failure rate is very low but it's still possible.

I always setup a mirror array (RAID1) to get redundancy and reliability. Which is more important to me.


If you want both just get 10,000 RPM drives and set up in mirror (RAID1) configuration.

 

[choucove]

Several years back when I began messing with RAID configurations, I was very adamant that RAID is the way to go. Whether it is doing a RAID 0 for extra speed or RAID 1 for mirroring data, or even better RAID 10 for speed and redundancy, I recommended it for just about anything to get the best performance or reliability possible.

However, the past several years of experience working with them and other business environments I find myself steering clear of RAID whenever possible to the point I only recommend it when absolutely necessary. And I'll explain why.

In a RAID 0 setup you can get a decent increase in throughput possibilities on your computer. In the best case scenario using high quality hard drives on a newer generation chipset you can nearly double your hard drive performance. However, just as mentioned before if you have anything happen to your hard drive, or your RAID controller decides to hiccup, you lose everything and get to start over from scratch. Consider the cost, as well. Some of the best platter drives on the market are the Western Digital Caviar Black hard drives which can support both SATA 6Gb/s interface and have massive amounts of cache (32MB on 500GB drive and 64MB on 640GB and 1TB drives). However, if you consider the cost of purchasing two of these drives, at $80 each including shipping, you're looking at the cost of a small capacity (60GB or so) SSD drive. The right kind of SSD drive set up properly will out perform any RAID 0 array of two standard SATA hard drives while using less energy and being much less complex.

I still do tend to use RAID 1 on occasions to clone a critical hard drive. However, there are still issues with this. Not only does RAID 1 suffer from slightly slower speeds than just a single hard drive, but everything BAD that you don't want possibly backed up on your computer is also getting backed up. So, if you get a virus in your computer then you can't just go back to an older backup without that virus on the second hard drive, it also has the virus. More and more, if possible, I have moved away from RAID 1 and instead suggest doing system images of your computer onto a separate hard drive. If you don't need to make an entire system image of your drive then set up a free program like Cobian Backup to automatically back up specific files from one hard drive onto the secondary spare any time that's convenient for you. This is actually how I have my own computer set up, where one primary 1.5TB hard drive stores all my data and Cobian Backup copies the entire drive (mirror options set to copy only the things that have changed or been deleted) to a secondary 1.5TB hard drive daily. This way, if the motherboard RAID controller fails, I don't have to worry about whether or not a different computer can read the hard drives in the case of needing to recover data. They were never set up in a RAID so I just have to plug them in to any computer and everything is recognized.

 

[LittleSnakey]

I have 2 10000 rpm velocaraptors. I don't save any data files on the computer so if the drive crashes its only the operating system and drawing program to reload.
Drawing files are kept in 3 places, 1 offsite weekly backup, 1 on a harddrive connecte by USB3 I work off, and 3rd in another computer on the network. These 2 are backed up daily.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Snakey!

You can do RAID0 to get a performance increase for sure. However if either drive fails you have lost everything. With current hard drives the failure rate is very low but it's still possible.

I always setup a mirror array (RAID1) to get redundancy and reliability. Which is more important to me.


If you want both just get 10,000 RPM drives and set up in mirror (RAID1) configuration.

 

[SightLine]

As already mentioned - a 6 year old computer, by computer standards is nearly an antique.

While I used to be a big proponent of and also built my own systems for many years (spent years as a senior net admin for a major hospital) I also came to realize for businesses custom built is not always the best option. There is a reason you do not see any custom built systems at any major business - support.

I also agree with what has been said about name brand systems - for a business the consumer lines are a no no. You must go with their business class systems. I've become partial to Dell Precision pro workstations but the HP pro workstations are also very good. Both come with a totally different level of support and service than the home systems. Fast response and support when needed.

Also good points on RAID - mostly a waste of time on desktops anymore. For a major boost I might suggest an Intel G2 SSD for your app/boot drive and a good 7200 rpm drive for bulk data storage. The SSD's are not cheap though and the sizes are small. The difference it makes in Photoshop when combined with x64 Windows 7 and 4+ GB of ram is stunning though.

 

[FrankenSigns.biz]

I have a 200GB SSD in my iMac. The speed increase in indeed stunning. It has to be seen to be believed. The Mac boots in less than 20 seconds on startup and PhotoShop loads in about 5 seconds.

 

[landdesigns]

Wow, Thanks for your graet reply!!! Give's me a good place to start!!!