Confused about dye sub and dye sub transfers

[depps74]

Can someone explain the differences between dye sub and dye sub transfers? I am confused and looking to get into T-shirts but each one seems to be so limited that maybe it makes sense to get both printers? I like that dye sublimation can print right from regular paper, but you can only use polyester? Whereas transfer paper dye sub requires special papers and extra steps?

Any video links or tutorials would be great.

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[mpn]

I'm not sure what you're describing but dye sublimation requires transfer paper and polyester regardless of what you're calling it. The process is the same and I'm not aware of any regular paper that works.

 

[mpn]

You can get material that's printable on your ink jet and then heat press that to your shirts (all kinds of shirts) or dye sub transfer print and heat press that image directly to a polyester shirt. Is that what you're thinking?

 

[depps74]

You can get material that's printable on your ink jet and then heat press that to your shirts (all kinds of shirts) or dye sub transfer print and heat press that image directly to a polyester shirt. Is that what you're thinking?

I saw a company called Ghost Toner that allows you to use regular copy paper with dye sub inks but will only adhere to polyester clothing. Ideally I am looking for a process that will mimic silkscreen and not be a sticker like my latex printer can produce. I find decals to be unbreathable and not ideal for comfort.

 

[iPrintStuff]

I think you’re getting confused between dye sub and HTV (heat transfer vinyl).

Dye sub is great, but as you said, very limited in that they need to have at the very least 50-70% polyester content, even then, the print will only stay on the 50-70% that is polyester.

Pro - breathable, lasting, great gamut, no weeding time. Great for intricate designs.
Cons - limited to polyester, pretty much exclusive to white tshirts unless you want to get a wide format.

Then there’s heat transfer vinyl, sticks to cotton and polyester but isn’t as breathable, especially on larger prints.

Pro - suitable for most textiles. Loads of different finishes (holographic, metallic, glitter etc)
Cons - usually a larger cost for machine, mostly wide format solvents are used. Not as breathable. And the big one, weeding! This makes the designs a bit more limited.

Naturally those two are the ones that most people get into initially but there’s plenty other ways you could go, screen printing, direct to garment etc. Naturally those have their drawbacks too, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone have good things to say about DTG, and screen printing isn’t suitable for short runs but the cost is a lot less for large runs.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Cons - limited to polyester, pretty much exclusive to white tshirts unless you want to get a wide format.

There is a fairly decent range of lighter colors that can be sublimated as well. Yes, the closer you get to pure white the more vibrant the colors are and less blending with the base shirt color. For instance, a light blue shirt will have some blending going on with the dye sub colors.

Wide format would be the way to get around these shortcomings, however, keep in mind, it's best to do cut and sew as well as this point. Or make sure that you incorporate hard to reach pressing areas (armpits etc) that won't get as much coverage into the design.

As a matter of personal preference, if one can handle cut and sew and sublimate wide format, this actually beats most of the other printed apparel decorated methods. Yes, it does still have it's cons (I prefer 100% poly in my apparel, but you can do a mix if you want, the more the mix (or less the poly %, the more "distressed" the look you'll get), but reliance on poly could be seen as a con for a lot of people), but it still handles much better then other methods (again, my preference, so take it for what that's worth).

 

[depps74]

I think you’re getting confused between dye sub and HTV (heat transfer vinyl).

Dye sub is great, but as you said, very limited in that they need to have at the very least 50-70% polyester content, even then, the print will only stay on the 50-70% that is polyester.

Pro - breathable, lasting, great gamut, no weeding time. Great for intricate designs.
Cons - limited to polyester, pretty much exclusive to white tshirts unless you want to get a wide format.

Then there’s heat transfer vinyl, sticks to cotton and polyester but isn’t as breathable, especially on larger prints.

Pro - suitable for most textiles. Loads of different finishes (holographic, metallic, glitter etc)
Cons - usually a larger cost for machine, mostly wide format solvents are used. Not as breathable. And the big one, weeding! This makes the designs a bit more limited.

Naturally those two are the ones that most people get into initially but there’s plenty other ways you could go, screen printing, direct to garment etc. Naturally those have their drawbacks too, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone have good things to say about DTG, and screen printing isn’t suitable for short runs but the cost is a lot less for large runs.

Thanks this is super helpful. I have a HP latex and we have done prints on Chemica material and weeded it. It looks good, but it does not really bond well with the shirts. Sometimes it will peel off. I've set the heater to high and held it down longer. Is there any best practices you use to get it to bond to the materials better?

 

[Superior_Adam]

We handle DTG printing and love it. Maybe I am the only one. We have 2 DTG printers and a tunnel dryer. You are limited on DTG to shirts types kind of like dye sub. With DTG to get a really good print you need 100% ring spun cotton shirts. With the tunnel dryer it has a hand feel like screen printing in a way.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Thanks this is super helpful. I have a HP latex and we have done prints on Chemica material and weeded it. It looks good, but it does not really bond well with the shirts. Sometimes it will peel off. I've set the heater to high and held it down longer. Is there any best practices you use to get it to bond to the materials better?

We use a solvent so I can’t help you re. Latex, with regards to the transfers, the manufacturer should have guidelines for press times, temperature etc.

There’s also hot and cold peel HTV and sometimes the transfer tape plays a part.

I.e we have hot peel HTV but sometimes when we’re using a new bit transfer tape it tries to peel up the transfer right after pressing. So we let it sit for 5-10 mins for the adhesive to settle and it’s stuck!

Naturally you won’t get this problem with sublimation but the press time goes from 3-15 seconds on HTV to 50-60 seconds with sublimation. So there’s that.

As far as exclusively white goes with sublimation, you can do other light colours but it will be subject to colour shift. Naturally you can cut and sew but if you’re going to that effort, you’d probably still need a wide format sublimation printer. Which does drop the ink costs considerably.

 

[mark galoob]

My advice is to run away from shirts as fast as you can. The market is completely over saturated, they are ver time consuming, and they just as a general rule suck

 

[bannertime]

My advice is to run away from shirts as fast as you can. The market is completely over saturated, they are ver time consuming, and they just as a general rule suck

I kind of agree. There is a lot of money in it though. We paid off our HotTronix Fusion with the very first job. Just from the profit alone. We since resorted to using a contract screen printer and only using the heat press for small jobs with high minimum cost.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

My advice is to run away from shirts as fast as you can. The market is completely over saturated, they are ver time consuming, and they just as a general rule suck

That's the case with a lot of things nowadays.

As with any over saturated market, have to be able to bring something different to the table (and have to make sure that there is a market for "you" to be in it).

Shirts/hats are my biggest thing (~90%, but there are huge variation of substrates (especially shirts) within that demographic). While I wouldn't say run away from it outright, would make sure that able to bring something different. If "your" just another replicator (which in of itself nothing wrong with that), it's going to be hard.