Considering the "V" word...

[OldPaint]

wild west.......if you did what you said, you would also know that a horse internals are far different then human. that in itself should give you a clue. also horses are VEGAN))))) their stomach is a made to extract nutrients from stuff that would cause a human to starve to death.
to make sense of how much protein your body needs daily........put an 8 oz steak on your plate. cut it up into 1" x 1" squares. now eat 2-3 of those....AND THROW THE REST OF THE STEAK INTO THE TOILET!!!!! this is exactly what your body will do with anyway.
THAT is what i ment by massive amounts of protein. another way to understand this protein overload YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT to believe you have to have is the old line,
YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT. ok? IT AINT THE TRUTH....because this is the reality: you are what you dont excrete))))))))
AND YES......19 years NO MEAT. reason for the change in diet was AGE & METABOLISM! i was 43-44 when i became a lacto-ovo vegetarian. within 90 days i dropped 25-30 pounds, took my cholesterol from 305 to 160!!!! and i had just survived a heart attack at 42. this was discovered to be fact in 2009 when i had my 1st heart cath done. the heart attack blocked my right artery. i did not go to hospital or doctors. how did this show up in 2009? during the heart cath the doctors could see the right artery was totally blocked, BUT since i didnt seek medical intervention, the heart regrew new veins around the blockage. these are called "collateral veins." and by changing to a veggie diet, i believe i helped my body recover on its own. as for my diet change in my mid 60's.....ive stated my body is not processing carbs now.........the same way it did 20 years ago. you understand metabolism changes.
iceman, you dont need any more protein intake daily then a guy who is 170 pounds. like i said when i became a veggie i was 255.....i dont belive that is small and i did a lot of physical work and play. right now iam 280. was 295..........back in april 2011, after i died and laid in a coma for 7 days...i went in the hospital at 260, left at 230.....and as i got my appetite back, so did i put on the pounds.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

wild west.......if you did what you said, you would also know that a horse internals are far different then human. that in itself should give you a clue. also horses are VEGAN))))) their stomach is a made to extract nutrients from stuff that would cause a human to starve to death.

Yes, but what you don't realize is that there are a lot of commonalities among all mammals. Exercise physiology, the process that nutrients are broken down and used are common among mammals. Even the salts that they lose during workout are the same as ours. Quantities are different (for obvious reasons), but you have a lot of commonalities between the two. That was the point I was trying to get across.

Even the fact of having to supplement grain for horses that deal with riders and intensive workouts are along the same lines of people having to up their caloric intake depending on how active their lifestyle is. Otherwise, horses could live off of just a diet of grass. But depending on their lifestyle, depends on how best that they get their energy from.

There is a certain energy requirement that all mammals need to conduct just the normal processes of the body. Normal ATP production etc requires a certain amount of nutrients, rather we do any exercise or not. Depending on a lot of personal characteristics (age, gender, stage of life(young, old, pregnant etc) determines those levels that are needed just to sustain. That's common in all mammals.

The point is, there are a lot of similarities between the two that aren't obvious until you start to think about them.

Another similarity that I always thought was interesting and we used to use it quite a bit before shows. How many here that either do or did drink cokes (or something else with easy quick energy) that would have this sudden burst of energy and then about an hour to hour and half just "crashed"? Same thing happens with horses, in fact, damn near the same time frame as well. If you are showing them in an event that requires speed, feed them closer in time to the event. If they need to be slower during the event (something like Western Pleasure) feed them further out in time to the event so they will have that "crash" by the time the event starts. The physical diets my be different, but what happens to the bodies are quite similar.

AND YES......19 years NO MEAT. reason for the change in diet was AGE & METABOLISM! i was 43-44 when i became a lacto-ovo vegetarian.

It doesn't matter why the change in diet. The point is right now your body can't handle the diet that you were on. If everything can be had from a lacto-ovo veggie diet (which is the vibe that I'm getting from your posts), then even with your metabolism and age now, you should have been able to find something in that diet that would have worked. If that type of diet is the best for our bodies.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

also horses are VEGAN)))))

It took me awhile to find this, but are you sure all horses are vegans?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX-Tp9M-aoQ

Just couldn't help trying to find that and spur this on. All in good fun OP.

 

[john1]

lol

 

[OldPaint]

wildwest, in my particular situation, i have a really bad back, which in turn limits my walking, hence not much physical exercise is my new norm. at 59, i was diagnosed with bladder cancer. up till then, i had not even seen a doctor, even after having the heart attack at 42. so my doing the veggie think then..........helped me get 21 years NO DOCTORS OR MEDS.
one thing no one of can change is GENETIC PREDISPOSITION, heredity. heart disease in my family history. both sides, father and mother. my dad was dead at 50, my mom at 70. guess what killed em? now do you understand? doing the veggie change when i did, was very beneficial. i know many 60-75 year olds that are still veggin. for me it worked well TILL........59, the bladder cancer, 10 surgeries between 2005-2009. numerous days with catheters and many days spent in recuperating from procedures. the aging process, with all the 3-6 weeks of NO PHYSICAL EXERTION.......and the heredity and PILLS i had to take, made the food processing change.
and like i said earlier....3 CARDIOLOGISTS told me this: 85% of the cholesterol created in the body...COMES FROM CARBOHYDRATES!!!!! for me and my now body this is why i had to resort to a high protein, no SIMPLE CARB diet. lack of ability to burn calories results in increased fat storage. plain and simple.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

one thing no one of can change is GENETIC PREDISPOSITION, heredity. heart disease in my family history. both sides, father and mother. my dad was dead at 50, my mom at 70. guess what killed em? now do you understand?

That is true. But you can mitigate genetic predisposition by proper diet and exercise. Heart disease runs in my family too. I've already past the age where most had their first heart attack and unless I had a really really mild one (which you can have and not know it, odd as that may seem) I haven't had one.

My tests come back clean every time.

I do go to doctors for checkups, but I'm not on any meds, I don't take any pills in relation to my diet or for general/specific health needs. I strictly do a checkup (too many problems can be solved by early checkups for me not to go to the doctor on a regular basis).

Now could I still have a heart attack due to bad genes? Sure could, but at least I know clogged arteries didn't help it speed it along. Clogged arteries could have been the tipping point that got my relatives. Had they eat better or did more activity, they might have lived longer. But things like this, you never really know now.

I do believe that not going to the doctor for checkups is a foolish thing though. I do believe you said that you hadn't gone to one for 21 yrs(hard to tell sometimes in your posts). My dad too got bladder cancer. One that if he hadn't been to the doctor and caught it, it would have killed him. It wasn't the type that every man gets when they live old enough and that's slow moving. What could have been done to help your health in those 21 yrs that you didn't go to the doctors? Won't ever know now though, either way, if it did or if it didn't, or might have made it worse, but we will never know. You don't have to have symptoms that you can easily distinguish to be having bad things happening to you. Dad never did, it was a routine checkup that happened to have a blip on the results. I'm just talking checkups here, not pills or anything else. Just checkups.

Just remember that sometimes it takes years before our bodies show ill effects to things, depending on your genes you could hold out longer then most. I know some people that have smoked all their lives and don't have any ill effects at all, but especially not directly related to smoking. Some barely last a few years before getting some type of cancer related to smoking.

 

[OldPaint]

well........i coulda went vegetarian at a lot earlier age, never started to smoke at 10-11 yrs old, ate better as a child, and may have never had any heart problems.........BUT we choose are paths, in life and how we abuse our bodies. i spent most of my teen years working and living on a dairy farm. 50 head milked twice a day, every day. bailing hay, plowing, planting, workin on a combine, feeding the animals, butchering pigs, cows, hunting deer and small game. so we ate a lot of meat then. steak and eggs in the morning was the norm not the exception. but we worked hard, and was stupid strong. felling bullet proof and invincible was a reality. IF i could have that back today....)))))).
its like when i was diagnosed with bladder cancer(59), doc asked me if i was still SMOKING CIGARETTES? i said no, i quit when i was 42(after the 1st heart attack). his answer to me was......"you didnt quit soon enough." smoking and bladder cancer are synonymous. mine never got to be more then stage 1. at a couple surgeries, they was considering removing my bladder due to the tumors being so close to the OU tube(how stuff goes from kidney to bladder.)but had great doctors. still have my whole bladder, 36 months cancer free.
yea, coulda done a lot of thing different. would the results be the same? worse? better? i did what i could to change things and as far as my 21 years with no doctors, i say this because when i had the heart attack at 42 i did go to a doctor, a week later)))). he gave me some tagamints and sent me home!!!! that helped a lot!!!hahahaha
in reality i didnt see much of doctors once i was discharged from the military in 1973. i went to the VA a couple of times for a problem i had while in the service. coulda been an allergic reaction to fuels, as i had a 600 gallon minute hose rupture on me, at an aircraft re-fuel once, pretty well was soaked in JP-4, i drank it, breathed it, in my eyes up my nose.............but was more concerned with stopping the flow rather then my health. my point is, trying a veggie lifestyle at an earlier age............COULD possibly make a lot of the thing that might happen.....LESSEN THE CHANCES. wish i would did it before i had the 1st heart attack and never smoked a cigarette!!!!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

"you didnt quit soon enough." smoking and bladder cancer are synonymous.

My dad never smoked. They don't always go hand in hand. It depends on the type. There is one type of bladder cancer that all men get if they live long enough (some get it sooner then others), but it's slow to develop, so most of the time doctors don't do much for it as we would probably die of something else before it kills us.

 

[ICeMAnAbk]

iceman, you dont need any more protein intake daily then a guy who is 170 pounds.

Bigger is better! I'm trying to get to 200 even solid. I deploy on occasion to watch local nationals in the middle east. I was eating around 4500+ kcals daily there, drinking an ungodly amount of hot water. I managed to keep my weight at 190lbs the whole time but I had to keep eating all day to maintain that weight. We had to detain a few of those guys over there before the MPs show up. I'd rather be able to overpower someone quickly especially in those minor incidents we had.

Nebraska hasn't been too forgiving since I got back either. I left here when it was still in the 80s, there was 110-100, got back here, getting screwed with 90-100 with the humidity. So, been eating, lifting/running, and hydrating like crazy so I can redeploy next year.

If I ate vegetarian there, I would of keeled over. Not even possible either. most of what we'd get was fats/proteins and cooked up carbs. MREs taste pretty good now though. We do have vegetarian MREs, but good luck finding em :/

and like i said earlier....3 CARDIOLOGISTS told me this: 85% of the cholesterol created in the body...COMES FROM CARBOHYDRATES!!!!! for me and my now body this is why i had to resort to a high protein, no SIMPLE CARB diet. lack of ability to burn calories results in increased fat storage. plain and simple.

Pretty much doing Atkins?

 

[ICeMAnAbk]

well........i coulda went vegetarian at a lot earlier age, never started to smoke at 10-11 yrs old, ate better as a child, and may have never had any heart problems.........BUT we choose are paths, in life and how we abuse our bodies. i spent most of my teen years working and living on a dairy farm. 50 head milked twice a day, every day. bailing hay, plowing, planting, workin on a combine, feeding the animals, butchering pigs, cows, hunting deer and small game. so we ate a lot of meat then. steak and eggs in the morning was the norm not the exception. but we worked hard, and was stupid strong. felling bullet proof and invincible was a reality. IF i could have that back today....)))))).
its like when i was diagnosed with bladder cancer(59), doc asked me if i was still SMOKING CIGARETTES? i said no, i quit when i was 42(after the 1st heart attack). his answer to me was......"you didnt quit soon enough." smoking and bladder cancer are synonymous. mine never got to be more then stage 1. at a couple surgeries, they was considering removing my bladder due to the tumors being so close to the OU tube(how stuff goes from kidney to bladder.)but had great doctors. still have my whole bladder, 36 months cancer free.
yea, coulda done a lot of thing different. would the results be the same? worse? better? i did what i could to change things and as far as my 21 years with no doctors, i say this because when i had the heart attack at 42 i did go to a doctor, a week later)))). he gave me some tagamints and sent me home!!!! that helped a lot!!!hahahaha
in reality i didnt see much of doctors once i was discharged from the military in 1973. i went to the VA a couple of times for a problem i had while in the service. coulda been an allergic reaction to fuels, as i had a 600 gallon minute hose rupture on me, at an aircraft re-fuel once, pretty well was soaked in JP-4, i drank it, breathed it, in my eyes up my nose.............but was more concerned with stopping the flow rather then my health. my point is, trying a veggie lifestyle at an earlier age............COULD possibly make a lot of the thing that might happen.....LESSEN THE CHANCES. wish i would did it before i had the 1st heart attack and never smoked a cigarette!!!!

That 'new' research for smoking says some effects from smoking last 20yrs after your last one. Im sure in 5 years it'll be 30yrs since your last smoke. Really wondering where some of these researchers get their information from. Being soaked in JP-4, along with those "new!" immunizations they were trying out around that time I imagine didn't help. my Dad was in around the time you were in, he was in whitesands I think. Had a few immunizations **** him up a bit, apparently they admited they were experimenting back then with that stuff.

 

[OldPaint]

wildwest.....you ever hear of 2nd hand smoke? its actually just as bad as being a smoker and sometimes worse because non smokers dont have their immune system working to fight it. i think your talking about PROSTATE problems. bladder cancer is bladder cancer. only defining factor is how far along is it when found, and method of treatment. since mine was never more then stage 1, i didnt have kemo, radiation, or BCG wash. and most times bladder cancer dont kill, but will lower resistance with kemo and radiation to allow other killers to take over.
iceman. i have always been powerfully stong. when i was in the military i lifted, gymnasics. i was able to military press 300 pound, bring it behind my neck and lift it straight up again and then set on rake. i also owned a biker bar..........never lost a fight. at 66 after open heart surgery 3 month earlier, i got outa my truck to kick some smart mouthed 25-35 years olds ***........ONLY to have a heart attack and die. I LOST THAT ONE))))))
iam not doing ADKINS. to restrictive. i do a lot of meat. fish, chicken, tuna,(i luv ARBY'S RUBENS(throw away the bread)i do a lot of vegetables. salads, brocolli, cold slaw. mornings i do cerals with fruits and whole milk. just dont do pasta, white rice, bread, pizza, doritos))))))))))))

 

[WildWestDesigns]

wildwest.....you ever hear of 2nd hand smoke? its actually just as bad as being a smoker and sometimes worse because non smokers dont have their immune system working to fight it. i think your talking about PROSTATE problems. bladder cancer is bladder cancer. only defining factor is how far along is it when found, and method of treatment. since mine was never more then stage 1

The doctor called it bladder cancer. My dad had the wash, he had the radiation. The way I understood the wash though, in my mind that could also be considered a form of radiation as well. It got to the point that wash was hurting him pretty bad tring to purge it. He still has to go back every so often to make sure the cancer hasn't come back. The only good thing is it was on the outside of the bladder. If it had gotten inside the bladder, that would have been a different story.

One thing that you want to avoid trying to do is making definitive statements. Something is always associated with something else. Something always happens. 100% something is caused by something else. Statements like that. One thing that I have learned over the years that more then likely there will be something that comes around and "bites" your theory in the butt. My dad bowls with this guy that has cancer caused by Agent Orange. It has come and gone 9 times. He was predicted to live less then 6 months for 8 of those times. What happens is the cancers develops to a certain size and then just dies. Not a very common scenario with Agent Orange induced cancer patients.

Yes, I have heard of second hand smoking. I got plenty of that being in the horse industry. Horse owners do love their tobacco products. The doctors do have theories as to what could have given dad this, but that's all that they have. One was quite surprising in my mind, but thats all speculation at this point. Smoking in general was considered, but they had more viable alternatives (in their mind) then that.

 

[ICeMAnAbk]

at 66 after open heart surgery 3 month earlier, i got outa my truck to kick some smart mouthed 25-35 years olds ***........ONLY to have a heart attack and die. I LOST THAT ONE))))))

LIKE A BOSS. Ya, you're def retired POL lol



OldPaint, you might wanna check about the immunizations as well. Some of the early ones they tested when you were AD messed people up later down the road. Some of em today still mess people up. I was missing about.... 8-10 patches of hair on my head when I got the small pox vaccine. a "minor" side effect. Grown back finally after a year, but now I have a pure white patch on the back of my head. From all the other crazy crap I got shot with, Im just wondering what Ill be dealing with in 10-20yrs. This Anthrax Immunization they're forcing me to do is experimental, so who knows what they'll find out in the long term...

 

[signworldusinc]

I have actually considered this as well but I've been having red meat (steaks) like every other day last week. They humans are not made for meat consumption but seriously I have tried a day of being vegetarian its hard to do but I guess you and your body get use to it

 

[OldPaint]

iceman, while on AD i was part of a IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TEAM. i had a TS clearance, and was the only POL guy on the team. had to have duffle bag packed, and never more then 15 minutes outa touch with team leaders. this went on for almost a year, and in that time i was at the hospital WEEKLY........getting shots!!!! for what i had or still have NO IDEA. i sent for my medical records when i got active in the VA..........and it consisted of my 1st induction physical, 1st discharge physical and the same for my 2nd enlist/ discharge...NOTHING in there about all the shots i got!!!!!!