Copyright question

[rjssigns]

Sign shop does some major work for Harley.
Execs from H-D go to the shop for a meeting.
Shop owner though it would be nice to put a "Welcome H-D" sign with logo on the easel by the conference room.
Since they were at it made some table toppers too.
H-D execs saw it and went ballistic.
H-D execs asked" Who gave you permission to do this"?
Silence...
Folks from H-D said gather all of it and we will stand by as you destroy it so it is unrecognizable.

This actually happened. If the people were not friends I wouldn't have believed it.

This story holds true for any of the major players.

BTW RedBull makes H-D look like lightweights and will rain hellfire on you.

 

[Jillbeans]

I just plain wouldn't do it.
I was at a car show last year. Guy who had bought one of my charity auction panels approached. I was excited, thinking I'd finally get a job from my appearances there.
He wanted a friggin' Walt Disney character painted on his truck. I said "Sorry, but that is licensed by Disney".
He got real p!ssy with me about it. He said he had permission from Disney.
I asked to see the paperwork and he said it was at his house. :ROFLMAO:
I told him it wasn't worth it.
And it's just not.
Love....Jill

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Sign shop does some major work for Harley.
Execs from H-D go to the shop for a meeting.
Shop owner though it would be nice to put a "Welcome H-D" sign with logo on the easel by the conference room.
Since they were at it made some table toppers too.
H-D execs saw it and went ballistic.
H-D execs asked" Who gave you permission to do this"?
Silence...
Folks from H-D said gather all of it and we will stand by as you destroy it so it is unrecognizable.

This actually happened. If the people were not friends I wouldn't have believed it.

This story holds true for any of the major players.

BTW RedBull makes H-D look like lightweights and will rain hellfire on you.

Embroidery shop had a bunch of Disney designs (Disney has complicated this with their alliance with Brother and designs being installed by default in Brother home single needle machines) and next thing we knew their machines were being sold off without the "brains".

 

[GAC05]

Thanks, but more a random question.. we had a debate here about that, in our showroom we have many sign samples, with logo's, of signs we have done in the past...
We were debating whether that, strictly legally speaking, was within the rule of the law... I think we're totally allowed to show samples of previous works, just as everyone here
has pictures of logos and artworks of their previous works on their website....

Just do like the Asian adult entertainment industry and pixelate the naughty bits out that might run afoul of the law.
That way your customers will still get the big picture.......

wayne k
guam usa

 

[ams]

1. Most customers don't have permission, so you have two options. Either make it and it stays under the radar (printing like mickey mouse, very very little chance Disney would ever find out), is it right to do? No. But also some copyrights do not matter, as if the company closed and no one is maintaining the copyright. Like for Nascar, if a driver dies, people make the car number logo for memorials and such, it goes viral everywhere without permission. Your other option is to ask for proof of permission. But my rule of thumb is, if it's something like a 5" X 5" Ford decal on a cornhole board as a present for someones birthday, I don't worry about copyright. If it's wrapping a car in Disney, I won't do it.

2. Yes you can print your own stuff without legal problems, it's only if you make money on it or advertise it like in magazines and stuff. There are little issues about displaying publicly, but in my experience is never enforced.

 

[Gino]

yeah, now I get it. If you wanna do it, go ahead, it's all legal like and comfy cozy, as long as you don't get caught.

So now, in the sign industry, as long as you don't get caught, you're Okay to go. So, stealing or doing illegal things only count , if you get caught. With ethics and integrity like that, it's no wonder, these new hacks and late arrivals in the sign industry are so f*cked up. They have no values to begin with, so why worry about giving customers crap signs, either ??


:ROFLMAO:, see I'm still learning.................

 

[boxerbay]

if your selling it be careful.
if your only displaying it you should be ok.

if there is an issue, the first thing that will happen by law is a simple cease and desist letter and you must comply.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

2. Yes you can print your own stuff without legal problems, it's only if you make money on it or advertise it like in magazines and stuff. There are little issues about displaying publicly, but in my experience is never enforced.

Not really.

Now chances you not getting caught if it never sees the light of day that's something else. But don't mistake that for it not being illegal.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Gino is absolutely right. If you don't have the permission of a copyright holder to reproduce their work, even for personal use, you open yourself up for legal trouble. It doesn't matter if you're showcasing your work in a portfolio or hanging a poster on the wall of your bedroom. You're violating copyright law. If you get caught, you could potentially get in trouble.

Are you likely to? Probably not, but an overzealous company lawyer/representative could cause some headaches for you.

If you choose to reproduce copyrighted material for a customer, you can also get into hot water.

I wouldn't do it. Better safe than sorry.

 

[ams]

Not really.

Now chances you not getting caught if it never sees the light of day that's something else. But don't mistake that for it not being illegal.

It's a case by case basis. If I print a Microsoft logo and put it on my office wall, do you think Microsoft will have a problem with it? No
If I print a banner with Microsoft on it and put it by the highway, will Microsoft have a problem with it? Maybe
If I make up Microsoft bumper stickers and sell them online or in my shop? Of course

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I'm afraid that is speculation until you ask them. If you don't have permission you don't have permission.

It's a case by case basis. If I print a Microsoft logo and put it on my office wall, do you think Microsoft will have a problem with it? No

I think you are confusing your chances of getting caught with them not caring.

If you believe that they won't care, call up MS corporate, talk to someone that has authority on making those decisions and see if they would care. They may indeed not care, but until you ask them, it is just speculation on your part.

Rather or not you make a profit (or any money changes hands even if it's just break even) on something is irrelevant.

 

[ams]

I'm afraid that is speculation until you ask them. If you don't have permission you don't have permission.




I think you are confusing your chances of getting caught with them not caring.

If you believe that they won't care, call up MS corporate, talk to someone that has authority on making those decisions and see if they would care. They may indeed not care, but until you ask them, it is just speculation on your part.

Rather or not you make a profit (or any money changes hands even if it's just break even) on something is irrelevant.

D.C. shoes gives out free decals, you can pick them up and use them however you want. Just because you print your own, who is to say it isn't one that was printed on their machines?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

D.C. shoes gives out free decals, you can pick them up and use them however you want. Just because you print your own, who is to say it isn't one that was printed on their machines?

If you had the legal ability to print your own and display in your own office/household without getting permission, why would that last part matter?

Again, it reads like you are confusing the odds of you getting caught, with you having the legal ability to print your own without permission.

If you want to print your own to display where ever, fine go ahead. You may or may not get caught (odds are that you probably won't), but that doesn't make it any more legal. It just means your risk factor of getting caught is far lower. Not that it's any more legal.

 

[Gino]

That is some of the dumbest reasoning I've ever heard.

So, if you go into a store and take a pencil off the shelf and put it in your pocket, walk out and not pay for it, not get caught, it's not stealing ??
If you go into someone's house and take a drinking glass out of the cupboard, take it home and they didn't see you, it not stealing ??
If someone comes into your shop and takes your last cartridge of ink without you seeing them, it's not stealing ??

Does it depend on the object or quantity ??

Do you get mad if you just waited to park your car in a parking space, while the little old lady backs out and when she's finally gone, another person zips in front of you ??

When does stealing become stealing in your world ??



You, have a problem and if you don't think what you are doing is stealing, just because you can justify it in your own head, what other convaluded things do you do that aren't normal behavior ??


I'm not judging you..... only God can do that, but you are not the kinda person I would want to be party to.

 

[hazelsmrf]

A lot of people have the mentality that it's OK as long as you don't get caught. Or "it's OK because Disney has bigger fish to fry". Etsy is overrun with people selling Disney stuff that they have no rights to, but Disney does not do anything about it so they keep doing it. It's frustrating as someone with actual ethics to see the easy money they're making by not giving a crap, but I hope that one day kharma bites them in the butt.

Big companies like car dealerships usually print all of their promotional material nationally. The dealerships then order which pieces they want for advertising in their shops.

Using the Harley logo in a portfolio would only be OK if the dealerships even had the rights to print their own advertising materials. Again, usually that would be a national campaign, they want brand consistency. They will have brand guides. If you printed out something that you weren't supposed to, and then use it as your portfolio piece, they're wrong both times.

(I don't know this specifically for print shops, but I am a graphic designer and deal with copyright/trademark issues all the time).

 

[hazelsmrf]

D.C. shoes gives out free decals, you can pick them up and use them however you want. Just because you print your own, who is to say it isn't one that was printed on their machines?

Just because they are giving decals out for free does not mean that you can use them however you want. You typically would not be allowed to use them for commercial use.

 

[ams]

Show me one time when a company took someone to court over a $1 or 50 cent sticker that wasn't sold but used by the person who made it.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Show me one time when a company took someone to court over a $1 or 50 cent sticker that wasn't sold but used by the person who made it.

Again, that doesn't make it legal. That just means that the odds of you getting caught are incredibly low. Two totally different things.

Semantics yes, but that's what makes the "civilized" world go around.

You also have to understand that a big company can go after a little peon like us and rather or not they are right, they can still win.

Also bare in mind that Disney sent a nasty letter (and to others) to a person that legally purchased a toy (Star Wars I think) and posted their own picture of it on twitter I think. So you do have abuse like that happening. Yes, I realize that's not what you asked for, but I want you to understand that Disney started the process over a picture that the accused took (the customer's picture, not from another source) of a legally purchased toy. To me, that trumps what you were asking about.

Also consider that some things are settled before they even get to court.

 

[hazelsmrf]

Show me one time when a company took someone to court over a $1 or 50 cent sticker that wasn't sold but used by the person who made it.

I don't really understand what you mean by this. You're allowed to use the sticker, just not commercially. They're for personal use.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I don't really understand what you mean by this. You're allowed to use the sticker, just not commercially. They're for personal use.

It was the sticker that was printed by a person without permission for their own personal use, not one received from proper channels.