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Copyright - What can I do?

stitchup

New Member
Afternoon guys

Copyright is always a 'touchy' subject and I have made an innocent mistake in the passed so don't want to get caught again!

We often go to the Formula ne Grand Prix and I take stack of pictures. If I then take one of my pictures and create an embroidery pattern from the picture can I sell shirts with the pattern on? One step forward, could I print the actual photo I took to the shirt and sell?

As you'll know, F1 cars carry a lot of logos and whilst embroidery is not detailed enought to reproduce the logos the colours do get the logo across.

I've attached one of my patterns.

Cheers

John
 

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  • BrawnGP Jenson Car on  Dark Grey.jpg
    BrawnGP Jenson Car on Dark Grey.jpg
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Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Just recently think within a month ..somebody was taking pictures and screen printing, did this for sometime and passed with copyright inspectors until recently guess it was looked into more closely and NO not a good thing
even though you take the picture it is still being used for profit without permission to take the picture as I read it
like taking a picture of you and making money from it

now embroidery what I see there is is a white race car no nothing to say who's race car so maybe ... I'm not the one to say so I'd check farther.
 

imagep

New Member
We used to have a customer who sold generic design tshirts near NASCAR events. Several times he had his shirts siezed as counterfits even though they never had a specific copywrited emblem or logo. They claimed that the checkered flag was a trademark of NASCAR.

They guy ALWAYS got his shirts back after his court date, turns out that the Judges dont agree that NASCAR has ownership of every generic checkered flag. But our customer still lost the opportunity to sell the shirts (which is what NASCAR had intended).

Eventually the guy just changed his designs to generic "southern pride" (redneck) and the name of the town each race was held in and he had no more issues.

I know that doesn't do a lot to answer your question, but the point is that "legality" of copywrite issues can only be ultimately determined by the judge (who obviously found that the cops were incorrect in my customers case).

I really don't think that any individual sponsors would object to their logos being represented as a detail in an image - after all, you arn't actually selling an item based on any value that their logo adds, you are selling a shirt that just happens to have a representation of their logo as a small detail in the overall design. I think it would be more of a civil issue than a criminal "counterfitting" issue. If you were selling fake "Nike" shoes that would be counterfiting, but thats not what you are doing. Also, I would think that each individual company that just happens to have a sponsor logo on a car would have to individually sue you - which is not likely.
 
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imagep

New Member
Craig - that was us...

I can't answer the OP's original question... but I can point you to our experience...
http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64093


I noticed on the above linked thread that someone asked if the enforcement was based on a complaint.

Based on what I have heard through grapevine, the inforcement may be paid off by NASCAR to sieze competitiors legal stuff. Bristol also happened to be one of the locations that my customer had his checkard flag design shirts seized. When my customer objected, the officer explained that they had been directed to sieze anything with a checkard flag or anything that had a race car printed on it - even if it was generic. My customer told me that it was "Federal Marshals" who did this.

It's a shame when cops are given the authority to stop a business transaction and seize your inventory based on questionable and disputable issues and solely at the direction of a competitor private business. Seems like they would have to get a court order, where the Judge is shown picts or samples of the items, before they could seize your stuff.
 

binki

New Member
... even though they never had a specific copywrited emblem or logo. They claimed that the checkered flag was a trademark of NASCAR.

They guy ALWAYS got his shirts back after his court date, turns out that the Judges dont agree that NASCAR has ownership of every generic checkered flag. But our customer still lost the opportunity to sell the shirts (which is what NASCAR had intended)....

The lawyers in California would call that a 'niner (9 figure lawsuit):scream:

I guess I will show up at Fontana and see if I can score.
 

Grafix USA

New Member
Being a motorsports photographer I can add a little information to your question. First if you are using the image of an actual vehicle it is copyrighted and trademarked. The F1 chasis and body designs are all copyrighted and the graphics on the vehicle are all trademarked. F1 especially is VERY protective of their property rights. As far as selling your images, it depends on how you took the photos. If you took photos using a media credential you may not sell them except for editorial use. If you entered as a ticket holder I would refer you to the back of the ticket which limits your use of photos.

The only way to get around this is to use a "generic" race car with no paint schemes that match any of the teams and no actual logos.

This is all based on US laws, I'm not positive of the UK copyright and trademark laws. Check some of the photo forums in your area (i.e. www.ephotozine.com) for more direction, but I'd bet they are similar to the US.
 

jasonx

New Member
Being a motorsports photographer I can add a little information to your question. First if you are using the image of an actual vehicle it is copyrighted and trademarked. The F1 chasis and body designs are all copyrighted and the graphics on the vehicle are all trademarked. F1 especially is VERY protective of their property rights. As far as selling your images, it depends on how you took the photos. If you took photos using a media credential you may not sell them except for editorial use. If you entered as a ticket holder I would refer you to the back of the ticket which limits your use of photos.

The only way to get around this is to use a "generic" race car with no paint schemes that match any of the teams and no actual logos.

This is all based on US laws, I'm not positive of the UK copyright and trademark laws. Check some of the photo forums in your area (i.e. www.ephotozine.com) for more direction, but I'd bet they are similar to the US.

If you take the photograph on public property say when they are displaying F1 cars for promo things before the race does this still apply and is only contained to within the race track?

Do paparazzi have to pay royalties to celebrities to snap their pictures or is it being on public property make it ok?
 

G-Artist

New Member
Digging through my archives I came across this.

Slightly different in that the driver was in the car but the principals apply.

Also note this is a 9th Circuit case. The 9th Circuit that has been the most overruled circuit by SCOTUS in the history of American Jurisprudence.

Motschenbacher v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co., 498 F.2d 821 (9th Cir. 1974).

In Motschenbacher, the Ninth Circuit held that a photograph depicting distinctive aspects of a race car driver's car was an actionable misappropriation of the driver's identity under California law.

Lothar Motschenbacher, a professional race car driver, sued R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co. and the William Esty Company for injunctive relief and damages, alleging misappropriation of his name, likeness, and personality in a television commercial. The commercial "utilized a 'stock' color photograph depicting several racing cars on a racetrack. Plaintiff's car appear[ed] in the foreground, and although Plaintiff is the driver, his facial features [were] not visible." Motschenbacher, 498 F.2d at 822.

The United States District Court for the Central District of California, Judge Manuel L. Real, granted summary judgment in favor of the Defendants who had altered the photograph by changing the numbers on all racing cars depicted, transforming Motschenbacher's number '11' into '71' . . . attaching a "wire-like device known as a 'spoiler' to plaintiff's car, . . . [and] add[ing] the word 'Winston', the name of their product, to that spoiler . . ." Id.

The Ninth Circuit (Circuit Judges Koelsch, Hufstedler, and Trask) reversed, holding that California courts would afford legal protection to an individual's proprietary interest in his own identity. According to the Court, the fact that Motschenbacher's "likeness" was unrecognizable in the commercial and that R.J. Reynolds had changed the number of Motschenbacher's racing car from "11" to "71" and added a "spoiler" to the car did not preclude a finding that Motschenbacher was identifiable as the plaintiff in view of automobile's distinctive markings: white pinstriping, oval medallion, and red color.
----------

The pivotal thing is that the Winston folks used an "action" photo AND driver was in the car which, because he was in the car, no matter that he was not readily indentifiable, allowed the case to be heard. IMHO (and I do not have a law degree) taking your own photo of a car on exhibit and using that as a base and erasing the decals and reapplying your own would put you in fairly safe territory.

Another case (1995) involved such an action (Montana v. San Jose Mercury News, Inc.) a newspaper reproduced posters of its Super Bowl cover story. Joe Montana claimed it violated his common law rights of publicity as well as Section 3344 of the CA civil code (toughest law in the nation on personal publicity rights) and the California Court of Appeal said that:
1) the posters represented newsworthy events, and
2) a newspaper has a constitutional right to promote itself by reproducing its new stories.

So, it also matters who you are and the precise nature of the use even though in the end it is all for a profit motive. Go figure!!!
 

stitchup

New Member
Some very interesting posts, thanks guys.

I never thought for a moment there would be a definative answer to the question and of course, at the end of the day, it all depends how the law is interpreted - one judge might say you're guilty whilst another, not guilty.

The bottom line is, for most of us, we can't afford the legal bills to take on the might of companies like Red Bull, Brawn GP or Ferrari.

Cheers

John
 
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