Copyrighted Artwork?

[oldgoatroper]

Very interesting.

Some avenues, I never thought about. ​

So, if I look at a Coca-Cola logo, study it and then draw it from memory and it happens to look identical, I could use it without any harm coming to me or my customer ??

What you describe would actually be legal under copyright law but very, very illegal under trademark law.

 

[jfiscus]

heres an idea. IF.YOU ARE WORTH your claim this is a BAD DESIGN........since the owner of that art work wants $750 to use it.........
PRESENT TO THEM, a revised logo, with YOUR DESIGN, market it to the police force as a PACKAGE, with them BUYING YOUR DESIGN, thus they own it, and ask them to bring you any future usage of the design be it on their vehicles, patches, letterheads, business cards
all this for $500..........hummmmmmmmmmmmmm
and tell them you will work with them on the payment, over a set period of time that is acceptable to both!!!!

Unfortunately, this is just a small license plate decal order, their new vehicles do not use this patch design; we created their new vehicle graphics package and just finished their new fleet vehicles with it. (it uses the city seal) Now, they send me this afterwards.

They already have the patches purchased and in-hand, so a revised design would have to be pretty similar. I have no idea why they didn't call me for artwork/design on this project; probably because the online embroidery company promised "free design"...

I don't see the harm or chance of getting caught by the out of state company for some 2" tall decals they're going to slap on their rear plates, but I can foresee them wanting to use it for other future uses.

I can redraw something similar, fixing the shape problems, arch text problems, ugly train/trestle... This is what I was concerned with is if this is legal or not, as they will probably want to use it later down the line as you mention.

 

[Billct2]

So was this an original design by the embroidery vendor or did they recreate something that already existed?

 

[signswi]

Copyright protects the work, not the idea or concept.

So incorrect it's amazing.

"Hey look, I made a logo that looks exactly like the Nike logo! Imma have a shoe EMPIRE!"

:ROFLMAO:

 

[jfiscus]

So was this an original design by the embroidery vendor or did they recreate something that already existed?

Sent the customer an email, awaiting response.

 

[ForgeInc]

Copyright protects the work, not the idea or concept. So, you can recreate the artwork from scratch to look as close as you like as long as you do not use -- in any way -- the actual file/printout that came from the other vendor.

So far off base its not even funny. By your logic, any slogan, song, poem, book, etc that was simply "re-created" would not infringe on the copyright?

I.E. i could simply retype any book in a different font and call it my own? or perform any song i hear and sell for profit?

PLEASE show us where you acquired this line thinking!

 

[oldgoatroper]

So incorrect it's amazing.

"Hey look, I made a logo that looks exactly like the Nike logo! Imma have a shoe EMPIRE!"

:ROFLMAO:

Are you daft?

As has already been stated, it isn't copyright law that protects a corporate logo. Its trademark law that protects logos...

 

[oldgoatroper]

So far off base its not even funny. By your logic, any slogan, song, poem, book, etc that was simply "re-created" would not infringe on the copyright?

I.E. i could simply retype any book in a different font and call it my own? or perform any song i hear and sell for profit?

PLEASE show us where you acquired this line thinking!

Literature and music are the two exceptions.

 

[ForgeInc]

Literature and music are the two exceptions.

Hogwash. Or in your case - "Goatwash." Show me something to back up what you claim, can't wait to see it.

 

[Gino]

Are you daft?

As has already been stated, it isn't copyright law that protects a corporate logo. Its trademark law that protects logos...

I'm still not clear on this. Don't be angry with me, but this is really hard trying to see this new theory.

So, let's take it off the corporate level.
​

Sign Shop 'A' designs a logo for client 'X'.

'X' shops around the drawing that 'A' stoopidly gave him.

'X' comes to my shop and I look at it, study it and then proceed to make up a design from memory and it looks identical to Shop 'A'.

I can still use my design, since I didn't scan it or trace it, but did it from memory ??

 

[oldgoatroper]

I'm still not clear on this. Don't be angry with me, but this is really hard trying to see this new theory.

So, let's take it off the corporate level.
​

Sign Shop 'A' designs a logo for client 'X'.

'X' shops around the drawing that 'A' stoopidly gave him.

'X' comes to my shop and I look at it, study it and then proceed to make up a design from memory and it looks identical to Shop 'A'.

I can still use my design, since I didn't scan it or trace it, but did it from memory ??

Yes, you can.

The only way that Shop A can protect his design concept as opposed to his work is to have his client sign a contract specifically limiting the use of Shop A's design concept without proper permission.

If Shop A did not did not have the client enter into a contractual agreement limiting the use of the design concept then you are free to recreate it, but you are not free to copy it directly using any physical, automatic or mechanical means.


I can imagine that many of you are rolling your eyes right now -- Oh!!! Goodness gracious, that can't be right.

But it is true. Copyright law does not provide for automatic ownership of a design concept. But a contract can do that for you.

 

[Gino]

I hear ya, but I'm not sure I understand something.........

Look this..... Copyright Act of 1976 up..... and see if you still have the same opinion. This is what I've been basically basing my actions upon. Yours sounds to easy to deceive the system.

 

[Pat Whatley]

FROM THE U.S. COPYRIGHT OFFICE:

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan, or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

Apparently the U.S. Copyright Office operates on a "make it up as we go" standard.


Here's the link to the US Copyright Office web page explaining what a copyright protects. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

 

[ucmj22]

Here's my question. Do I have to do anything special to copyright something, or just put a © and a watermark on it?

 

[oldgoatroper]

Here's my question. Do I have to do anything special to copyright something, or just put a © and a watermark on it?

Copyright, in as far as copyright protects anything, is automatic and does not require any special notice. But it is prudent to always provide the notice.

By the way, a proper copyright notice has the following form:

Copyright [©], year, owner, conditions.

That's it -- the symbol is not necessary, but it does tend to look more business-like.

Example:

Copyright, 2012, Oldgoatroper, All rights reserved.

Copyright ©, 2012, Oldgoatroper, All rights reserved.

 

[oldgoatroper]

FROM THE U.S. COPYRIGHT OFFICE:

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan, or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

Apparently the U.S. Copyright Office operates on a "make it up as we go" standard.


Here's the link to the US Copyright Office web page explaining what a copyright protects. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

Ha!... The place where lawyers love to play...

 

[jfiscus]

Yes, you can.

The only way that Shop A can protect his design concept as opposed to his work is to have his client sign a contract specifically limiting the use of Shop A's design concept without proper permission.

If Shop A did not did not have the client enter into a contractual agreement limiting the use of the design concept then you are free to recreate it, but you are not free to copy it directly using any physical, automatic or mechanical means.


I can imagine that many of you are rolling your eyes right now -- Oh!!! Goodness gracious, that can't be right.

But it is true. Copyright law does not provide for automatic ownership of a design concept. But a contract can do that for you.

So, this file attached, completely created from scratch, based upon what the customer gave me as a "sketch", is sufficiently legal to print?
(it did take 20 whole minutes...)

 

[Pat Whatley]

Yeah....except make the train a whole lot larger.

 

[The Vector Doctor]

So, this file attached, completely created from scratch, based upon what the customer gave me as a "sketch", is sufficiently legal to print?
(it did take 20 whole minutes...)

I thought you meant 15 minutes to match the original.

 

[ForgeInc]

I still call Goatwash. Since you can't seem to provide any basis for anything you have posted regarding your twisted views on copyright, how about this (from Wikipedia

"Copyright does not cover ideas and information themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed.[18] For example, the copyright to a Mickey Mouse cartoon restricts others from making copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works based on Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but does not prohibit the creation of other works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they are different enough to not be judged copies of Disney's.[18] In many jurisdictions, copyright law makes exceptions to these restrictions when the work is copied for the purpose of commentary or other related uses (See fair use, fair dealing). Meanwhile, other laws may impose additional restrictions that copyright does not — such as trademarks and patents."

It clearly states you can NOT make copies of anything that is a copyright. Any by a new definition of what IS a copyright, ANY original piece of art, logo, song, written text, etc is automatically assumed to be under copyright whether actually applied for or not, IF the work is original.

This from the copywright.gov website:

"What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

So...I don't know how you get the notion that as long as you "re-create a logo (or other original work) yourself" and don't use the original file in any way you would be OK, but I would encourage you to stop posting information like that unless you can back it up with solid info that justifies such usage!