• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Customer Requires "critical Color" (1:1 Match) To Replace Custom Paint Work, Okay To Print? Help!

Jumpshoutmedia

New Member
I have a very good customer who does a lot of volume with me, and they recently approached me about replacing their custom paint job that they do on every single vehicle that they sell, with an equivalent (looking) wrap.

Here are the details, so you understand what I'm asking..

This customer sells equipment that is mounted to road going truck chassis. Each truck they sell has their corporate colors painted onto the fenders. So the results is the truck is one color from the OEM and the fenders are another solid color that they paint on. Their issue is, painting the fenders on to each of the trucks they sell is becoming expensive and since automotive painting is very susceptible to even the most minor of errors, dirt, improper mixing etc.. you get the point.

Their solution is to have me come in and wrap this solid color on to the left and right fender. I understand their desire as I could come in and do this very quickly and easily and for a lot less money. However, the problem is proving to be finding a solid color wrap grade vinyl that matches their needs.

I have been mass-producing there lettering and logos for these trucks for years and I happen to know that 3M makes the color used. However this color only seems to be available in their electric cut series sign vinyl. I cannot find a suitable wrap grade match to this color!

I've kicked around the idea of trying to print this color onto standard white wrap vinyl then laminating it however no matter what I try the resulting color is very speckled, with some artifacts that aren't quite pixelation but more so strange dithering whereas you can see the dots of ink used to make up the color. Now I understand this is how inkjet printers work and for most situations this would be suitable but when applied, the results just aren't that's spectacular.

Is there such a thing as applying a spot color, is in like a pre-mixed color so you're not trying to build the color using the Four Color process? Or can nice solid color be achieved using four color process, but it's just outside of my wheelhouse?

Another concern I have about using a printed vinyl is longevity. Their current method of using paint can result in a product that still looks halfway decent after 15 years or more! Now I understand wrap vinyl has a lifespan, however I also know that solid color wrap vinyl will Outlast printed and laminated wrap vinyl any day of the week.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I can achieve a long-lasting, solid color wrap that will look nice for a fairly reasonable amount of time, or can somebody confirm or debunk my fears that a printed laminated sheets of vinyl will simply not last long enough to be a suitable replacement for paint.

Thanks in advance.

Also, in case anyone is curious, or they may want to try to help locate a color that matches.. The product I'm using for the cost work is 3M 7725 and the color is "Fawn", which is like a light creamy color with a slight yellowish tint, and also figure it's worth mentioning,. They are pretty particular about this color, so don't bother suggesting the 3M 1080 "light ivory", as it's too far off to be acceptable to them.

PS, one other possible solution that friend of mine suggested was, if I am going to replace the color that it should be as spectacular replacement as in some sort of tinted Chrome, or something very unique and special enough that would be able to use it as a potential catalysts to get the customer to warm up to the idea of changing to another color altogether.

Thanks guys.
Dom
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
i know what you're trying to do.

If your machine can accept spot colours, Then yes, you should be able to get that ink mixed up to the colour you need. But it obviously required a system bleed of some sort depending on the printer.
But i wouldn't do that.

I would get a rep down and talk about it with them. Not necessarily a 3m rep, but a supplier who sells more than just 3m.
 

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Talk to your 3M rep. The can produce custom coloured rolls if you order enough of it. If they are willing to put all their eggs in your basket, it might be viable.
 

Correct Color

New Member
Yes, you can get there using four color process. How good the print quality would be depends on your profile, and your printer, and how much control of the printer your RIP/driver combination gives in the profiling process. But it can be done, done well and done very consistently if everything in your system is set up correctly.

What printer and RIP are you using?
 

printhog

New Member
I do this often.. laminate the 7725 onto 3M 180 as if it were the over laminate. You'll get the conformability and air release, with the color you want. The 7725 will still have all the properties including lifespan. To warrant this contact your 3M rep. Ours covered this process for us so long as you follow the suggestions they give for lamination settings. They will want to know your customer.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 

Jumpshoutmedia

New Member
Yes, you can get there using four color process. How good the print quality would be depends on your profile, and your printer, and how much control of the printer your RIP/driver combination gives in the profiling process. But it can be done, done well and done very consistently if everything in your system is set up correctly.

What printer and RIP are you using?
I'm using a Roland Solejet III - XC540, with Versaworks running Roland Ecosol max inks.

I've tried various Oracal and 3M IJ vinyl's, and as far as profiles go, I've never really used one that was specific for the material.. i've always just used the stock profiles built into Versaworks (Premium Glossy Cast Vinyl) or whatever, and I've never really gotten CLOSE to having a decent quality print where colors appeared solid with nice coverage.. I've always had splotchy results, where you will clearly be able to see dots on the printed piece.

I would LOVE for someone to help me dial in the print process and get better results, however, outside of this site, I don't have a lot of places to go for help. :)

I've attached an image of 3M's full color 7725 vinyl (top) which is the color I'm trying to match, against my printed attempt (bottom). You can clearly see the dot pattern that looks like random overspray of cyan and magenta ink droplets. The second image just shows the 3M vinyl against 2 more swatches I printed.

Also, while I was trying to tweak the color of the swatches that I was printing, I was having trouble configuring the print job, mainly because I'm not sure what setting to use as far as profile, dithering, quality, full width scan, etc! For the attached samples, I used a builtin profile (premium cast glossy vinyl), on high quality, with "density control only" selected. If I switch to "artistic" quality, the dot pattern appears less noticeable, but then the color changes SO widely that I'd have to start all over with mixing the CMYK values in order to try to get close again.

One last thought, I DO own a GretagMacbeth eye-one match system that I use to calibrate my displays, and I've heard this can be useful for matching printed colors also, I'm just not sure how.. Just figured I'd throw that out there in case it might help.

THANK you!
 

Attachments

  • vinyl.jpg
    vinyl.jpg
    110.5 KB · Views: 147
  • print.jpg
    print.jpg
    29.9 KB · Views: 153

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I would second applying the 2 mil vinyl that you already use to a wrap vinyl and trying that. it will have a longer lifespan than printing and look better as well.
 

printhog

New Member
On this one question I have to disagree with correct color but not about color.. Yes a well profiled machine will print a similar color, likely within 1 Delta E.. but it won't be suitable for the clients desired use when compared to paint or solid color vinyl given the life and the ink deposition quality.

They're used to paint. Going to solid color vinyl will have shorter life, but they can save on the paint costs, paint time, and resale at de-identifying time. The cradle to grave cost will likely be equal to paint or lower. Our 3M rep had an entire presentation on this exact subject and 7725 was designed for vehicle use, it just doesn't have the air release wrap properties for its adhesive.

It's not CAN you print 3M Fawn color on 180-10.. it's IS THIS PRODUCT SUITABLE for your clients expected use.

Printed film will require a laminate that will last 5 years.
7 if you go to the 480 series. But that's the life. Then it's turning brown. Scratches and minor repairs by piecing will be noticed after year two from color shifting. But not with solid color film.

Show your client the various methods and be frank. I strongly recommend you get your 3M rep involved. If you don't have that relationship all your supplier for the name.

Sounds like a good project for you and a great on-going sale. I'm quite sure 3M will back you up on 7725/180-10 construction. Dunno about over 480.. dis similar material there.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 

shoresigns

New Member
I have an XC-540 like yours. The first thing I would recommend is if you're using canned profiles, try using Avery's profiles instead. They're the best I've found, even for printing on 3M or Oracal. Just try to match gloss with gloss, matte with matte, etc. Also change your default Colour Management to Sign & Display instead of Pre-press US or Density Control Only.

Now, I also have a 3M swatch book handy and I just compared it to my Roland colour chart printed on glossy cast, but nothing looks close to 3M Fawn, so that method isn't going to work. My suggestion would be to simply make up your own CMYK swatches in the colour range you're targeting and find the closest match with a bit of trial and error. The Blend tool in Illustrator can be very helpful for this—you can create two different colours and the Blend tool will fill in X number of steps in between them.

As for the ink "texture" on solid colours, that's a fact of life with CMYK printing. It gets better with more passes and higher resolution, but it also gets worse on certain colours, especially lighter ones. There's no such thing as a pre-mixed spot colour on your printer, as you suggested. Everything that comes out of your printer is a blend of cyan/magenta/yellow/black (and light magenta/light cyan). Versaworks does have a spot colour converter, but all that does it takes spot colours from your input file and splits them into CMYK.
 

equippaint

Active Member
Youre talking about replacing paint on a brand new vehicle, a vocational truck at that, to save a few dollars to an oem that you do alot of business for. Youre opening a can of worms and in my opinion exposing yourself to warranty issues and potentially losing future business if you arent totally upfront and honest about the drawbacks of vinyl vs paint. Its hard to fix it if its scratched, doesnt last near as long as paint and honestly if i bought the truck with that on it id think it was cheap. This may be the wrong venue to criticize wraps but its not really intended to be used for lifetime service or as a replacement for a real paint job. Being an oddball color too will make many end users mad the first time they have a body repair and have to strip both fenders and repaint. If youre brutally honest with them and theyre ok with it then go for it but dont pussy foot around the drawbacks and expect to not get bit.
 

Correct Color

New Member
Printhog,

On this one question I have to disagree with correct color but not about color.. Yes a well profiled machine will print a similar color, likely within 1 Delta E.. but it won't be suitable for the clients desired use when compared to paint or solid color vinyl given the life and the ink deposition quality.

Well, just to be clear: I didn't say it was necessarily the best solution to his or his client's situation, I just said it's possible to do.

Jumpshout,

I would LOVE for someone to help me dial in the print process and get better results, however, outside of this site, I don't have a lot of places to go for help.

Well that is what I do for a living. And it sounds like you could use my help, regardless of how this turns out.
 

luggnut

New Member
Youre talking about replacing paint on a brand new vehicle, a vocational truck at that, to save a few dollars to an oem that you do alot of business for. Youre opening a can of worms and in my opinion exposing yourself to warranty issues and potentially losing future business if you arent totally upfront and honest about the drawbacks of vinyl vs paint. Its hard to fix it if its scratched, doesnt last near as long as paint and honestly if i bought the truck with that on it id think it was cheap. This may be the wrong venue to criticize wraps but its not really intended to be used for lifetime service or as a replacement for a real paint job. Being an oddball color too will make many end users mad the first time they have a body repair and have to strip both fenders and repaint. If youre brutally honest with them and theyre ok with it then go for it but dont pussy foot around the drawbacks and expect to not get bit.

i agree here... paint vs. vinyl... a lot of difference in how long they last or repair etc.. make sure the customer understands vinyl doesn't last like paint. if they are changing out trucks every few years vinyl might be a better option?..

but if they are expected 10-15 years out of vinyl.. not good... and matching a lighter neutral shade of color is always a little more difficult to me.. as not a lot of ink is laid down to blend together. the lighter colors just look grainier because of not as wet of an ink deposit imho.
 
Top