Customer starting to grate on my nerves

[TimToad]

More of a rant than a request for input, but I'm all ears at this point as the client(s) are driving me up a wall.

We were engaged to design this logo and were first given pretty simple instructions. They want a wave, a tree and the mountains behind the tree represented somehow.

"We want the logo to be simple, modern, but fluid. We like the idea of using the wave as our main point. Keeping the wave structured, but also finished with soft brush stroke lines."

So, I came up with a few iterations of that theme.

Turns out, the person who gave us those guidelines wasn't the owner, who then got involved, but is doing this as a "team" effort with everyone in the office having a say. Lo and behold, we've been back and forth a bit and the goalposts keep moving. After forwarding concepts on the initial theme, the owner later piped in with "I think a more 'traditional ' concept, artistic and natural/organic." but still doesn't want to upset any of the employees.

The latest is that the brush stroked icon isn't clear enough for the dunces in the room, so I just went back to a more solid icon. Now, she replied with "No, I love the brush stroke idea, just less detail and not as wispy"

My response is that if I knock all the detail out of the brush strokes, it'll look like solid lines. So we'll see how this one is accepted.

Plus, they don't want the service or what the business is to be the prominent feature of the logo. They are all invested in the lake "lifestyle" because the mall they are in is near a lakefront community of several thousand homes. I think its crazy because the drought has reduced the "lake" to a fraction of its holding capacity, but I'm just trying to stop the bouncing ball of preferences and get this thing done.

 

[Tim4]

The problem is not them, but that you did not clearly explain how many drafts and revisions they could expect for the money they paid you.

The real problem? you didn't charge enough.

Moving targets always cost more to hit.

 

[TimToad]

I never mentioned anything about the financials of the project or any frustration over that end of it. Actually, the meter is running and they are being kept abreast as I always do of where we are at in the budget allocation department.

I'm happy to keep coming up with new ideas until they run out of money or we nail it.

Personally, I think she needs to drop the "team building" experiential crap and get on with fully articulating how she the one in charge wants her branding to look.

 

[ddarlak]

so is it a rant or do you want input, i'm confused...

maybe its you that are confusing the client...

 

[reQ]

I like #4

 

[BannerStandDeals]

I like #4

I'd have to agree. Number 4 for me too.

Hopefully no one skins me alive for suggesting this, but has anyone tried to white label a 99designs account? You still manage the entire project and make money off the design aspect, but leave the time-consuming parts to the community that focus 100% on design whereas your time is probably better pumping out signs that can't be offshored. Even at $75/ hour, is it even worth it unless you have an employee doing your designs?

 

[Rick]

I'd have to agree. Number 4 for me too.

Hopefully no one skins me alive for suggesting this, but has anyone tried to white label a 99designs account? You still manage the entire project and make money off the design aspect, but leave the time-consuming parts to the community that focus 100% on design whereas your time is probably better pumping out signs that can't be offshored. Even at $75/ hour, is it even worth it unless you have an employee doing your designs?

Takes out the skinning knife....

Ummm no, let's not do that....

 

[Rick]

Is the website going to be re-done?

I know it's a template but it looks awfully modern.

What does their marketing and old logo look like.

When clients start using words like "traditional" "concept" "artistic" and "natural/organic" What does that even mean.... to them.
I usually start with a creative brief and when I do present a design, they get a presentation that shows those ideas in other logo/design work. The Creative brief makes the target easier to hit, the presentation shows we followed it.

 

[Gino]

I understand the first mistake of not working with the right person, but after that, you let them take hold of the reins and then control you. I'm not gonna say a good designer or a good businessperson will take full control and dictate what happens next, but someone who wants repeat business and a good reputation to follow will intercede and not spend their money like they were driving around in a taxi with the meter running.

You are the professional in this equation with by far with the most experience in this field and dealing with these sort of people. By now, it would help if you had a dialog ready when you find yourself in these situations. It doesn't always work like clock-work, but you need to take back the control, have a meeting with everyone involved and ask them if you have full control or not ?? Give them 5 minutes to think it over. If they can't decide, tell them to contact you when they have their act together. Explain to them, there is no sense in your wasting their money, while they bounce around with silly ideas and kindness towards one another. It's not an art class where they all.... one at a time, give you instructions and you interpret their thoughts onto paper. Make a few hand sketches/thumbnails of their likes and dislikes and design it in black and white. Stop that color crap. Half the time, that alone confuses people as you can see already has happened to you. Show them the process of putting this together and eventually having it all unfold in the end.

If they balk at that, get paid and tell them good-bye.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

I would question the design sales part of this. customer has intentionally or unintentionally tricked you.

You said that charges for extra design ideas are being paid for so ya might be ok.

But this is how to deal with this from happening & how to get it back on track.

1st when selling come up with pencil ideas right there, this gives ya a good ideas what direction to go for.
2nd to get back on track gather your these good ideas & discuss with check signer which way to go, it is up to them to deal with others & get ideas to play with try to narrow it down to 3 ideas for them no more, since they are paying to design all day.

Stay in control of everything, once they start controlling you start losing, like now, if they refuse to listen to ya collect your cash & walk away.

If they realize they you had good ideas & were doing your best for them they will call back, & let you have control.

 

[jfiscus]

Tim, don't take this the wrong way, but.... ONLY option #4 is kind of sufficient to present to a customer. The rest are not the best.

I would continue working on this project as long as you think the customer will be paying you reasonably for your design work.
Choose a couple of your options and try a few different font combos on them and try adjusting the icons some and throw the best couple of those ideas back at them. I think the wave is a bit to strong of a wave, and the trees/mountains don't mesh well either, try other trees. It kind of looks like a tree along a brook in a couple and the "abstract" mountain is a bit to abstract; kind of just looks like a brown smear.

 

[jfiscus]

I'd have to agree. Number 4 for me too.

Hopefully no one skins me alive for suggesting this, but has anyone tried to white label a 99designs account? You still manage the entire project and make money off the design aspect, but leave the time-consuming parts to the community that focus 100% on design whereas your time is probably better pumping out signs that can't be offshored. Even at $75/ hour, is it even worth it unless you have an employee doing your designs?

You might want to go into hiding. There are MANY designers out there (on here too!) that might be none too happy.

 

[TimToad]

Is the website going to be re-done?

I know it's a template but it looks awfully modern.

What does their marketing and old logo look like.

When clients start using words like "traditional" "concept" "artistic" and "natural/organic" What does that even mean.... to them.
I usually start with a creative brief and when I do present a design, they get a presentation that shows those ideas in other logo/design work. The Creative brief makes the target easier to hit, the presentation shows we followed it.

This is a business not yet open or even begun to advertise. The space is just getting built out now. They came to us for the logo and eventually the signage for the building.

 

[BannerStandDeals]

You might want to go into hiding. There are MANY designers out there (on here too!) that might be none too happy.

I'll consider growing a beard and dying my hair, but the future is here.

 

[Rick]

This is a business not yet open or even begun to advertise. The space is just getting built out now. They came to us for the logo and eventually the signage for the building.

Odd, do they know of this place close by?

https://www.facebook.com/lakelifewellness?ref=br_rs
http://www.lakelifewellness.com/about.html

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

I really don't like to be negative but I have to say that I really don't like any of them. The spacing and fonts are weird and the graphic looks cartoony. Maybe they can't decide because they haven't seen anything they like and they're not designers so they don't know how to tell you what they want you to do differently? I totally agree that dealing with many people on a projects sucks, but honestly none of the concepts are good. I'm sorry.

 

[Gino]

Odd, do they know of this place close by?

https://www.facebook.com/lakelifewellness?ref=br_rs
http://www.lakelifewellness.com/about.html

Seems like not only do they not tread on each others toes, but they don't look outside their own little box, so as to not antagonize the natives.

 

[TimToad]

I understand the first mistake of not working with the right person, but after that, you let them take hold of the reins and then control you. I'm not gonna say a good designer or a good businessperson will take full control and dictate what happens next, but someone who wants repeat business and a good reputation to follow will intercede and not spend their money like they were driving around in a taxi with the meter running.

You are the professional in this equation with by far with the most experience in this field and dealing with these sort of people. By now, it would help if you had a dialog ready when you find yourself in these situations. It doesn't always work like clock-work, but you need to take back the control, have a meeting with everyone involved and ask them if you have full control or not ?? Give them 5 minutes to think it over. If they can't decide, tell them to contact you when they have their act together. Explain to them, there is no sense in your wasting their money, while they bounce around with silly ideas and kindness towards one another. It's not an art class where they all.... one at a time, give you instructions and you interpret their thoughts onto paper. Make a few hand sketches/thumbnails of their likes and dislikes and design it in black and white. Stop that color crap. Half the time, that alone confuses people as you can see already has happened to you. Show them the process of putting this together and eventually having it all unfold in the end.

If they balk at that, get paid and tell them good-bye.

You're right, and I've tried to gently get her to take control of her own business and whittle down the number of outside influencers, but she seems very inexperienced in business and is counting on these other employees to help make up a cumulative decisive, single leader with her.

Its not at all like how you described either about being frivolous with her fees. We're always very careful to talk with folks as we go through the process about how we're doing on the budgeted amount and progress stages. To her credit, she's swilling to pay a little extra to get exactly what she wants if necessary. The problem is that the confusion and mixed messages she's conveying to me by involving too many other people in the decision is the real waste of time and money.

The only reasons I put color to any of it was that two days ago, she was in her words "99% in love with Option 1" but that the other employees still had doubts. She also stated early on that teal, dark blue and lighter blue were "her" colors. All my original conceptual offerings were in B/W. Then they all said they couldn't visualize it without "their" colors applied.

Believe me dude, I'm trying my best to dance the dance and stay off everyone's toes.

 

[jfiscus]

10 minutes of work, a variation on what you already have.
(I needed to do something creative, I've been installing ALL DAY...

 

[Gino]

10 minutes of work, a variation on what you already have.
(I needed to do something creative, I've been installing ALL DAY...

No way, your background looks like a girl lying down at the beach. A grey girl, with a green snatch nonetheless. You heard what happened to Jared Fogel ??