Customer wanting to use trademarked logo on their signage

[gnubler]

I'm working on a bid where the customer wants some signs made of a trademarked logo. In this case it's a car dealer wanting signs of the GMC logo installed on the exterior & interior of the showroom. He said he's attempted to contact his corporate overlords to order signage for months now and gets no response, so he's looking locally. There's a street side pylon electric sign that the dealer "rents" from the manufacturer, who maintains it. Evidently they're not interested in handling any signage around the rest of the dealership.

Is there anything in this situation I should be aware of? Anyone else fabricated and installed trademarked logo signs like this?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If they are an actual franchised GMC dealer they would likely have the right to use the logo in ads, signs etc. It will be fine. If nothing else, they will get the slap for violating their franchise agreement if there is some clause in there saying they have to order signage from a specific place.

 

[BigNate]

I have always been warned that we need a copy of a 'permission to reproduce trademarked images' statement giving us or the customer permission to reproduce. GMC has a lot of resources to come after you if they so choose (though this is very unlikely). And yes, the dealership probably has permission to use the logo, but there is most likely a spec sheet that goes along with all the corporate id stuff that spells out exactly how the logo should be reproduced and how it should be used. (remember, trademarks are protected much stronger than copyright - and someone had to go and pay moneys and register the trademarked images - basically they are already invested in protecting the image.)

 

[Solventinkjet]

They should have some sort of dealer agreement that states how they can use logos etc. I don't think you have any liability if they end up getting in trouble. Just make sure to get paid upfront.

For example, as a Mimaki dealer, when referring to their printers, technically I am not supposed to refer to their printers as, "Mimakis" and am instead supposed to say, "Mimaki large format printer." But I don't think we'll lose our dealership over it.

 

[Gino]

Unless you have written authorization from the correct person from corporate, you have two routes to follow.

1. Do whatever the guy says and split the trouble with him, as YOU are the one duplicating a trademark without having written permission...... or
2. Just do it and hope nothing ever comes of it.

Your decision on how you want your reputation to be created.


There's got to be a reason corporate won't get back to this guy.

 

[BigNate]

They should have some sort of dealer agreement that states how they can use logos etc. I don't think you have any liability if they end up getting in trouble. Just make sure to get paid upfront.

For example, as a Mimaki dealer, when referring to their printers, technically I am not supposed to refer to their printers as, "Mimakis" and am instead supposed to say, "Mimaki large format printer." But I don't think we'll lose our dealership over it.

good point -- it is always about risk. If you missed some of the colors and someone at GMC want to be a total jerk, they do have the authority and legal right to sue the shop, especially if the shop never had corporate permission to reproduce the trademarked images. Generally for a small shop the risk is small - most small shop's pockets are not seen as being very deep, and so a claim would never be worth it. However, if your organization is seen as having deep pockets, then all bets are off. (Disney is notorious for aggressively protecting their intellectual rights. - we would never reproduce any likeness of theirs without explicit permission in writing.)

 

[gnubler]

Thanks for the input and will follow up with these suggestions. Good tips to CMA.
My trust level with car dealers is about on par with that of realtors: none.

 

[victor bogdanov]

There are dozens of used car dealerships, cash type places in my area and all have banners and flags of every car brand logo you can think of. One is even called beemers and benzes or something like that. Some of these are right across the street from big names like GMC, VW, Toyota official dealerships and it has been like this for as long as I remember.

Doubt you will have any problems

 

[Gino]

I really doubt GMC, VW of Toyota are gonna care much about beemer or mercedes flags across the street. If the flag company has permission to use whatever logos or trademarks, they can sell to whomever they wish..... but the OP doesn't have that same permission as far as I know..... or she'd already know these answers.

 

[victor bogdanov]

I really doubt GMC, VW of Toyota are gonna care much about beemer or mercedes flags across the street. If the flag company has permission to use whatever logos or trademarks, they can sell to whomever they wish..... but the OP doesn't have that same permission as far as I know..... or she'd already know these answers.

Those small dealerships have flags of every brand you can think of. One side of the street big name official GMC dealership, look the other way and see a GMC flags, banners etc next to beat up cars, maybe no gmc even on the lot.

Feather flags, banners etc that are I'm sure printed locally at a sign shop

 

[JBurton]

Ask for them to provide the graphic standards from corporate... if they can get their hands on that you're pretty safe to produce.

 

[netsol]

good point -- it is always about risk. If you missed some of the colors and someone at GMC want to be a total jerk, they do have the authority and legal right to sue the shop, especially if the shop never had corporate permission to reproduce the trademarked images. Generally for a small shop the risk is small - most small shop's pockets are not seen as being very deep, and so a claim would never be worth it. However, if your organization is seen as having deep pockets, then all bets are off. (Disney is notorious for aggressively protecting their intellectual rights. - we would never reproduce any likeness of theirs without explicit permission in writing.)

in much the same way that, in the music business, frank sinatra and his daughter nancy would drive a bar into bankruptcy for allowing a local band to do a nancy sinatra song without written permission

 

[ikarasu]

Do you guys ask every realtor for a permission slip when they want a sign produced as well?


I think if a Dodge dealership is asking for a sign with the dodge logo printed on it .. it's safe to assume they have permission to use the logo.


If it's some random dealership, or used car dealership asking for a logo, that's a different story.

Imo, if they sell brand new gmcs, they likely have permission to use and advertise the GMC logo in order to sell the vehicles.

 

[Z SIGNS]

This topic comes up all the time here.
Out of the thousands of people here who has ever gotten into trouble for something like this.
There things you can do and things you can't.
No you can't buy millions of sneakers from china and put Nike logos on them.
They don't come after you and send you to the hoosegow for something like this.
Guy buys a hammer and kills somebody with it. They don't go after the people who made the hammer.
If your worried have em sign off that they are responsible for blah blah permits special permissions & everything else.
If there is any crime here you are far from it.
Do the job collect the balance due.

 

[Johnny Best]

They do go after the establishment who sells the alcohol to someone who kills another for drunk driving. But you are right Z Signs about getting in trouble for something like this. I would have gone back and looked up the GM logo and start making signs for the guy. Some people just overthink things. I’m in business to make signs and money, not interpreting the law.

 

[somcalmetim]

Unless you have written authorization from the correct person from corporate, you have two routes to follow.

1. Do whatever the guy says and split the trouble with him, as YOU are the one duplicating a trademark without having written permission...... or
2. Just do it and hope nothing ever comes of it.

Your decision on how you want your reputation to be created.


There's got to be a reason corporate won't get back to this guy.

Please, corporate does not want anything to do with every day dealership signage.
The dealership can do almost anything from wrapping cars in giant logos or doing almost whatever sales stuff they want if its loosely follows brand standards within reason...they dont need to ask permission, usually they are required to put the brand logos on their signage somewhere...
If it is super expensive and permanent the dealership person might want to run the design up the ladder to their boss but thats their internal design/price decision/problem.

 

[Lux]

I have the disclaimer below on all invoices. But I like what Johnny Best says that he is in business to make signs/money, and not interpreting the law.
Not sure if my disclaimer would stand the test of an IP liar, whoops, I mean IP lawyer and the courts.
We turn down jobs if it seems like the material was stolen or "borrowed" as some clients might say. But your situation seems legit.

"By submitting material to Luxlab for services, including but not limited to photographs, film,
scans, artwork, or any type of electronic imagery, you warrant that you are the creator of the
image(s), or the legal copyright owner, or have permission from the copyright owner, or that the
material is in the public domain. In addition you agree that you are solely liable for any legal
action against Luxlab, its owners or assignees, which may arise from services you initiate"

 

[XtremeXccessories]

We are actually part of a large automotive group (and directly under a GMC dealership) so I've had many years experience with this.

The dealership should have access to gmassetcentral.com which will have current logos, stock photos of cars, marketing materials, etc. There's probably also a Brand Guide on there that will give you all you need to know to comply with their corporate branding.

GM is pretty easy going with their signage, except for their electric sign by the road and the channel letter logo on the side of the dealership which have to be to their specs (and often times purchased directly from them. We've done banners, flags, window perf, parts vehicle wraps, shuttle vehicle wraps, indoor marketing material, we even covered up an old roadside sign of a used car dealership that we bought next door with a GMC Truck Center print. As far as I know we've never been asked to take down anything as long as it follows branding and has the current logo (they like to make subtle, useless changes every couple years for the fun of it). We have been in bed with GM for almost 100 years, so maybe they give us some leeway, dunno.

Now if you're ever asked to do something for Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Audi, or Mazda (and probably other brands we don't have), make damn sure it's corporate approved/supplied. They won't come after you, but they'll make the dealership take it down and possibly fine them.

 

[Gino]

Once you become an 'authorized vendor' such as xtreme, you don't need to jump through hoops. They know and trust you, but to just find someone who is willing to do it and not pay attention to the rules, it could mean trouble.

 

[gnubler]

GM is pretty easy going with their signage, except for their electric sign by the road and the channel letter logo on the side of the dealership which have to be to their specs (and often times purchased directly from them.

Part of this job would be fabricating & installing the logo on the building exterior. I figured they probably have a style guide/corporate guidelines to follow. Thanks for the tip about gmassetcentral.com, I'll mention that to my customer.