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Cut vinyl prices peeling after 1 month

Discussion in 'Labels and Decals' started by MHester, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. tylercrum

    tylercrum Member

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    Lots of folks hate exercise and vegetables too. Doesn't mean you should steer clear of it. Not going to say that avery hasn't had issues before, but we use the heck out of avery vinyls and haven't encountered any issues that we haven't seen with other brands as well.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. eahicks

    eahicks Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks

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    I don't use much Avery unless it's a specific color vinyl I need. But I don't feel it's an inferior product. I haven't had issues with any Avery since about 2005 or 2006, when all their vinyls were crap and would shrink and fail, but they reformulated everything after that.
     
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  3. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    We use Avery A7/700/750 as our primary vinyl brand for calendared cut vinyl and do so because it's superior in handling and durability to the 3M counterpart (Series 50, which has a temporary adhesive). We have never experienced a failure like what is shown by the OP in 12 years of our existence and my 14 years of prior experience.

    For that to happen means either the surface was hostile to vinyl adhesion (due to contamination, application of "slick stuff", etc.) or the vinyl itself was defective or very old. That will happen to any vinyl if you leave it sitting on the shelf long enough. You should be able to tell it when you weed it. I won't feel right, and when you go to apply it, it will pull up with the application tape. No brand of vinyl, no matter how good or bad, would fail like that without something being wrong with the surface or the adhesive. Even powerwashing wouldn't do that; it would blow the letters or parts of them completely loose, not something more insidious.
     
  4. shoresigns

    shoresigns Very Active Member

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    For what it's worth, we've never had prints turn yellow in the sun, but we do laminate almost everything we print. These are the standard Avery materials we use, that have given us consistently top-notch results:
    • 2900 series high-performance calendered with 2000 series laminate for short/medium term signs
    • 1000 series cast with 1300 series laminate for long term signs and vehicles
    • 700 series high-performance calendered cut vinyl for short/medium term
    • 900 series cast for long-term signs and vehicles
    And for really cheap temporary signs, we use Avery 2611 without laminate. Yes, it's technically a wall film, but it works great for anything non-laminated because it's so thick and easy to apply. The removable adhesive hasn't been an issue in our experience.
     
  5. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    Even though you say that it was black vinyl I could only see something like this happening if it were printed black and then die cut far too fast on a solvent printer. I have never seen even the cheapest of the cheap vinyl ever do that ever!!! Something is not right here.

    PS I am no fan of Avery either...Always have trouble weeding the stuff, but in a crunch I don't hesitate to use it and have never had any major failures.
     
  6. ewded

    ewded Member

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    k.
     
  7. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Bet the transfer tape left adhesive all over the letters from sitting out too long and they cleaned it off with acetone or something. The 2nd sign may have been stored behind the 1st which protected it more from the elements. I wouldn't be worrying much about a mass problem with all of your past work.
     
  8. BIG EASY DOES IT

    BIG EASY DOES IT Very Active Member

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    You said these were backlit signs. What kind of lighting. Maybe the heat is coming after they installed and turned on the lights.
     
  9. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Concentrated heat usually just bakes it on, makes it shrink and crack up. Our lives would be much easier id we could simply apply heat and the vinyl curled up and fell off like in the picture.
     
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  10. Anastasi55

    Anastasi55 Member

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    I'm following this thread as a new user of a solvent-based printer. I'm testing different types of vinyl for in-house promotional printing. After getting through paper profile, placement, and design issues, I'm noticing that only after a day one type of vinyl is curling off my metal wall, another is curling after a month - it's also rather delicate for the average user who isn't professionally installing a car wrap. We eventually want to print media for bumper stickers and boat decals, but we want to avoid our promotional items to fall apart like this. What do you use?
     
  11. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    Even the cheapest vinyl should not spontaneously peel off after a day or a month. What kind of printer and what kind of vinyl are you using? What kind of printing/image is on the vinyl that is failing?
     
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  12. Anastasi55

    Anastasi55 Member

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    We have a SureColor S60600 and the vinyl that peeled the fastest was General Formulations GF255 Vinyl Clear Gloss that came as a sample. The other was a sample as well - it might have been 3M, the packaging was thrown out - that was meant to be used for car wraps. One would think it would stick to metal.
     
  13. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    The GF255 is a temporary-use removable vinyl.

    Car wrap vinyl requires pressure to adhere. It has true pressure sensitive adhesive. So if no pressure is used when applying it, the adhesive doesn't get activated.
     
  14. James Burke

    James Burke Being a grandpa is more fun than working

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    I'm begging the question:

    Does printing essentially create a a low-energy surface, thus causing the secondary vinyl applied to the print to delaminate.


    JB
     
  15. Anastasi55

    Anastasi55 Member

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    How much pressure? The videos of wraps being installed only show a rubber squeegee and bare hands being used...
     
  16. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    Firm pressure, with a squeegee. Wrap vinyls are designed that until firm pressure and even post-heating are applied in sensitive areas like edges, they can be easily lifted up and moved without stretching from sticking too much. Some are even slideable. You cannot just smooth them out on a flat surface enough to get out the air and expect the adhesive to have been activated.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Anastasi55

    Anastasi55 Member

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    However, the clear vinyl is being tested on our glass doors, they seem OK so far (crossing fingers). My managers want something like that for window decals...
     
  18. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    The temporary (removable) vinyl you are using is intended for short-term advertising, like a special sale or introductory offer that will only be displayed a short time--weeks or months. If you want longer term signage, you need to get a vinyl with permanent adhesive.
     
  19. Anastasi55

    Anastasi55 Member

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    The real issue is getting together with the owner and the Grimco sales rep to find the most appropriate media for our purposes... The samples so far are disappointing...
     
  20. kcollinsdesign

    kcollinsdesign Active Member

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    I have seen this when graphics were applied on surfaces "waxed" with products containing hydrophillic silicone. I would imagine, this being a car wash, that some zealous employee cleaned and "waxed" the sign using the car wash's "final rinse 'n shine" product, which typically contain products like this to shed water and prevent droplet formulation (when drops evaporate, they can leave behind dirt residue which was contained in the splashed up water).
     
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