Cutting Tactile Letters

[iam808]

I have a directory to update, in an office building. All the copy is Rowmark tactile, which I have a decent size piece to work with. My end goal is to cut the letters, leave them in the skeleton (or carrier) and then install on site. I've outsourced this plenty of times but this order is so small my supplier hardly want to look at it.

I have a CNC, and cutting the letters isn't an issue. The problem is, I can't get all the letters to stay in place during machining. Normally for small pieces I use double faced banner tape as my hold down, but the Rowmark already has double faced tape on the back side and my hold down tape isn't sticking to the liner, as would be expected.

Am I missing a step, any workarounds? Is this even reasonably possible?

I totally get that the right machine for what I want to do here is a laser, or I need a vacuum but for the moment I don't have access to either.

 

[johnnysigns]

You can try peeling the current adhesive side backer, mounting laminate or vinyl backer that's got the paper backer side and tape down in place with hem tape. Not sure if it'll still stay in place, but it's worth testing.

 

[MikePro]

cut with bridges and shave em down with xacto after install.

 

[iam808]

You can try peeling the current adhesive side backer, mounting laminate or vinyl backer that's got the paper backer side and tape down in place with hem tape. Not sure if it'll still stay in place, but it's worth testing.

It stays in place alright, a little to well! I think I need to tape to the MDF...D/F tape releases easier from then from PVC

cut with bridges and shave em down with xacto after install.

Tiny little tabs... I think that might help a few of the tight areas.

Is it not possible to bring the panel in and route the copy on the sign?

No, I'm replacing suite numbers on a sign, but not tenant names.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

What i have done in situations like this (if i understand correctly) is to tape it down face down with the original doublesided tape up,
and then cut it mirrored.

 

[Medina Signs]

You can also try some 3M spray glue to glue the backer onto the table, I've used it on 3mm pvc - works good - but then you have to clean the glue. If you glue the backer, the glue will come off when the backer is peeled.

 

[MikePro]

Tiny little tabs... I think that might help a few of the tight areas.

Clean corners, keep you from losing letters, but also works well holding your layout/spacing until application & a couple flicks with the xactoto lop them off onsite.

 

[Raum Divarco]

I have a directory to update, in an office building. All the copy is Rowmark tactile, which I have a decent size piece to work with. My end goal is to cut the letters, leave them in the skeleton (or carrier) and then install on site. I've outsourced this plenty of times but this order is so small my supplier hardly want to look at it.

I have a CNC, and cutting the letters isn't an issue. The problem is, I can't get all the letters to stay in place during machining. Normally for small pieces I use double faced banner tape as my hold down, but the Rowmark already has double faced tape on the back side and my hold down tape isn't sticking to the liner, as would be expected.

Am I missing a step, any workarounds? Is this even reasonably possible?

I totally get that the right machine for what I want to do here is a laser, or I need a vacuum but for the moment I don't have access to either.

do you have a sample of the size and contours

 

[jfiscus]

Might be the incorrect bit for the job? I haven't done that material in years but IIRC we used a different V bit than usual... but it cut the little letters fine then.
I also remember using certain fonts and ADA settings...

 

[tedshock]

I have a directory to update, in an office building. All the copy is Rowmark tactile, which I have a decent size piece to work with. My end goal is to cut the letters, leave them in the skeleton (or carrier) and then install on site. I've outsourced this plenty of times but this order is so small my supplier hardly want to look at it.

I have a CNC, and cutting the letters isn't an issue. The problem is, I can't get all the letters to stay in place during machining. Normally for small pieces I use double faced banner tape as my hold down, but the Rowmark already has double faced tape on the back side and my hold down tape isn't sticking to the liner, as would be expected.

Am I missing a step, any workarounds? Is this even reasonably possible?

I totally get that the right machine for what I want to do here is a laser, or I need a vacuum but for the moment I don't have access to either.

I asked the company that does a lot of wholesale ADA work for us for any ideas.

The owner told me in rare cases where he has to do this, he sprays the back of the appliqué's adhesive backer paper (typically MP 467/468 for Rowmark) with 3M 77 spray. Waits about 5 minutes, and then masks it with medium tack transfer tape. Places everything on one of their CNC bed (all which have vacuum hold down) and then does the work. He said the vacuum hold down holds the entire piece in place, and the 3M 77 holds the 'adhesive backer paper' to the transfer tape. He did say it can get messy/build up glue on the ADA bit, so it's a matter of trial and error as to the correct amount of 3M 77 to use, given how much copy needs to be done/how big or small the letters are, etc.

He said in lieu of a vacuum holddown table, you can try and spray the appliqué backer (same stuff, and wait 5 mins) and mount it directly to your CNC bed (as others have mentioned), but then you will have to clean the adhesive off of it afterwards. Typically he said you could just mill it ever so slightly, or use a coarse sanding block from Harbor freight to "scrub" off the adhesive left behind.

Good luck!

 

[AndreaRotela]

"The problem is, I can't get all the letters to stay in place during machining."

Do you have a machine with a vacuum table?

 

[Spen101]

Hey there,

Try giving that adhesive backing paper a scuff sand with a fairly rough sandpaper grit, just to break that surface gloss. I just tried some 3M backed tactile, and banner tape holds onto it pretty good after doing that.

 

[johnnysigns]

We recently covered our bed with tile gaskets from AllstarCNC and what a difference it's made holding and cutting small parts. It's like night and day. The foam is made to be cut into slightly be a margin nominally 0.005" extra on your Z height once the product is installed. We ran several thousand small 2" x 3" x 1/8" thick polycarbonate parts at 500up per 48x96 and had very, very small losses from part movement. We've got a newer Axyz infinite machine, but they're vacuum system leaves a lot to be desired for such an expensive machine. The tile gaskets have softened that blow.

Home - All Star CNC Products Inc

Find The Gaskets And Tape In Grass Valley, CA, With The Durability You Need Among Our Stock. We’Re One Of The Best In The Gasket Business.

store.allstarcnc.com

 

[JBurton]

We recently covered our bed with tile gaskets from AllstarCNC and what a difference it's made holding and cutting small parts. It's like night and day. The foam is made to be cut into slightly be a margin nominally 0.005" extra on your Z height once the product is installed. We ran several thousand small 2" x 3" x 1/8" thick polycarbonate parts at 500up per 48x96 and had very, very small losses from part movement. We've got a newer Axyz infinite machine, but they're vacuum system leaves a lot to be desired for such an expensive machine. The tile gaskets have softened that blow.

Home - All Star CNC Products Inc

Find The Gaskets And Tape In Grass Valley, CA, With The Durability You Need Among Our Stock. We’Re One Of The Best In The Gasket Business.

store.allstarcnc.com

Are these that gummy sort of material?
Also, how much of a vacuum pump did they sell ya? I know my jump from 3hp to 25hp was substantial...

 

[johnnysigns]

Are these that gummy sort of material?
Also, how much of a vacuum pump did they sell ya? I know my jump from 3hp to 25hp was substantial...

They don't seem gummy, but I did find cutting any plastic sheets with a plastic liner the parts actually stuck to the mats. We had to pry parts off, which in my opinion was great considering we had so few parts get spoiled from movement or chatter. My Axyz came with a 10hp busch mink pump. It's adequate for medium and larger parts, but I don't like the way their vacuum plenum setup works. They use thin gasket material to seal off the zones and it's something I'm going to replace with new gasket I got from AllstarCNC. Adding a second pump or a much larger pump is going to be so much more expensive then a few hundred bucks in gasket.

 

[JBurton]

They don't seem gummy, but I did find cutting any plastic sheets with a plastic liner the parts actually stuck to the mats. We had to pry parts off, which in my opinion was great considering we had so few parts get spoiled from movement or chatter. My Axyz came with a 10hp busch mink pump. It's adequate for medium and larger parts, but I don't like the way their vacuum plenum setup works. They use thin gasket material to seal off the zones and it's something I'm going to replace with new gasket I got from AllstarCNC. Adding a second pump or a much larger pump is going to be so much more expensive then a few hundred bucks in gasket.

That is definitely a wise way to go, at least for now.
I'm curious how the plenum is set up, looking at their machines online they're all t-slot configurations, are they pulling vacuum through the slots? Ya got a sheet of MDF on top of that, both sides shaved down? I know my vacuum nearly stops working if I don't shave it after a 1/32" deep series of cuts.

 

[johnnysigns]

That is definitely a wise way to go, at least for now.
I'm curious how the plenum is set up, looking at their machines online they're all t-slot configurations, are they pulling vacuum through the slots? Ya got a sheet of MDF on top of that, both sides shaved down? I know my vacuum nearly stops working if I don't shave it after a 1/32" deep series of cuts.

Yes, the axyz infinite machines use plenums that are plumbed to a vac manifold that I can turn on and off for the zone I'm using. They essentially machine a light grid into the plenums and use gasket tape to seal off each zone to the spoilboard. We're 100% cutting with a milled sheet of MDF on top & that's milled on both sides. I bought what seemed to be a better quality gasket tape from Allstar CNC as well that I'm going to test once I get some time.