Design - Do you provide working files?

[neato]

Just curious to hear everyone's policies about providing working files.

I have a customer who is always complaining because I work in Corel and can't provide him Photoshop files so he can make adjustments later on to keep the design up to date. (expiration dates, etc.)

My feeling is, I'm not in the business of providing working files, I provide print files. But maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. Of course, for sign customers I always provide editable vector files. This is a 'retail' customer.

How do you handle this?

 

[bob]

Clients get a snapshot, not a living document.

 

[Fred Weiss]

I quote the client a price which is representative of the time it took to create the original files and to burn a CD based on my design rate which is currently $125 per hour. Speaking for myself, I do consider my business to include digital file creation as a revenue source ... in particular, since I do not provide printing services such as business cards, brochures, garments etc., it is normal for me to sell clients their ready-to-use identity files.

While there is certainly a risk of losing production work by allowing clients to shop around for sign work, my approach has never been to control clients by holding their files. Rather i keep them coming back with good relationships, quality production and personalized service.

 

[neato]

I should mention that I'm referring mainly to print media. Say a customer comes for a flyer/postcard/brochure design. Do you feel like you need to supply the working file?

 

[Jillbeans]

When I do a logo for someone, I include all their files on CD, in all types, so they can screw it up as much as they want :Big Laugh
I usually include business card files and everything...it's usually just easier that way.
If they lose the CD I will burn one new one for free, no changes.
Any new stuff or revisions are not free, however.

I sometimes cringe when I see what other shops do to my layouts.
Love....Jill

 

[myront]

Are you sure they want a"photoshop" file or are they asking for an adobe file i.e. illustrator.
If they want a photoshop file they don't know what they're doing and not gonna get any file from me.

 

[Sidney]

I do not provide customers with editable/ original files unless they requested them upfront. With that being said, I charge them a branding/marketing package price. So, they may pay me $500 for custom design work but if they want all the editable/originals ( I still keep a copy) the price becomes $1500+...and this price is for small orders. Customers can not go to an advertising agent and have logos/branding done for less than $10,000.

Side Note: Corel files can be exported to PSD with layers, editable text etc.....it is seemless

 

[player]

There has to be some common sense here though. I small business like a lawn cutter is not going to spend $10K + for a logo. This has been discussed before. The best suggestion I remember was to clarify to the customer the art charges for design are for this use only, and the files etc. are going to be $x more. All this must be clarified and agreed to at the start of the job to make things go smoothly.

 

[Sidney]

Absolutely correct. A lawn cutter will not pay $10,000 but he probably wouldn't ask for original files I used that number as a base for the bigger customer that can invest more for logo design/branding etc. It is not unreasonable to get several thousands of dollars for developing a brand for a customer. When a customer asks for editable originals we must make sure we get paid well for them. I may charge $1500.00 (for the example I mentioned before) , but customers I speak to in NY, Missouri, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, North Carolina etc are not too far behind me with this type of scenario. We just have to make sure we don't give logo/ branding away for the same price as standard sign designing

 

[WildWestDesigns]

To me, something like this should be discussed before hand. Rather you do or do not provide editable files, it should be covered at the beginning.

However, if you do want to provide editable files and sign over ownership to your clients, for me, make sure to include the right for you to use their logo in your portfolio and the ability for you to use their logo as work that you have done for any competitions etc.

You may or may not do that, but I would have language in there for all.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I've never had any issues editing your files when needed, like someone else said, you can import Corel files into Photoshop no problem.

Having said that, I would offer to design him a "master" template file for a fee that he can do whatever he wants with, just make sure you charge accordingly.

When we provide files to clients who pay for them, they are never working files, we supply PDF, eps or PNG files, with all text converted.

 

[myront]

...Side Note: Corel files can be exported to PSD with layers, editable text etc.....it is seemless

Ok great. I supply a psd then you add what you want with photoshop then give me back a cut ready cdr file. Hmmm...can't do it.

 

[Tim4]

Ok great. I supply a psd then you add what you want with photoshop then give me back a cut ready cdr file. Hmmm...can't do it.

I doubt that the retail client needs any cuts done on his postcard. he just wants to be able to edit the files later to change the coupon expiration date.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Ok great. I supply a psd then you add what you want with photoshop then give me back a cut ready cdr file. Hmmm...can't do it.

Not everything required cutting...

 

[rossmosh]

Legally speaking, whatever they pay for is what they get. Anything more is "charity".

Morally speaking, you should do your best to make sure it's clear when someone pays for a business card layout read for print, that's all they are getting. Remember, many people are not familiar with the laws around design and simply assume that when they pay for that service they are also paying for the design and master files.

Business wise, I think it's important to be flexible and smart. If you come up with a full page print ad for a company and they want to use the design regularly and just change copy, I think you have to be flexible. Charge a price you can live with that pays for the loss of business but at the same time makes the customer happy to call you up for design work. I know I wouldn't be happy if I had someone design me something that was easy to change copy on but wouldn't release the work unless I paid a huge sum of money or simply charged me a decent chunk of change for a small amount of work.

 

[myront]

Not everything required cutting...

This is what leads to clients not having their logos in a vector format. If you have a design in photoshop you are limiting yourself to the use of it. We get this stuff all the time. People read all the hype about photoshop and go out and buy it to become a graphic designer. I'm just saying you have to keep designs in a format that vector programs can read. You can have raster elements within your design that were manipulated in photoshop but keep the overall design in a vector based program and you are limitless. Cut, print, web etc. can all be made from there.

What's going to happen if you lose the vector file for whatever reason. Don't call on your photoshop friend to help you out.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

Absolutely correct. A lawn cutter will not pay $10,000 but he probably wouldn't ask for original files I used that number as a base for the bigger customer that can invest more for logo design/branding etc. It is not unreasonable to get several thousands of dollars for developing a brand for a customer. When a customer asks for editable originals we must make sure we get paid well for them. I may charge $1500.00 (for the example I mentioned before) , but customers I speak to in NY, Missouri, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, North Carolina etc are not too far behind me with this type of scenario. We just have to make sure we don't give logo/ branding away for the same price as standard sign designing

But a company that is willing to spend several $1000s on design work isn't going to go to a sign shop to have it done.

Some of us deal with local mom & pop businesses. Some of us deal with large companies. Some are in the middle. There's no "across the board" rule for giving design files.

There are different reasons a customer wants the editable files. If it's because they want to take their business elsewhere, then you've already lost them as a customer. So, you can give it and hope they come back one day or don't give it and definitely never see them again.

If you did a cool sign layout and never discussed logo design, then they want to adopt that as their logo, that gets tricky because you want to get paid for "creating a logo". I think it's too late to say, "Sure, for $200 I'll give it to you on a disk". That most likely won't fly. The customers don't understand the design world. They don't see the problem of getting their buddy to just recreate what you did.

Sign shops are not graphic design companies but they do overlap from time to time. Just take each situation into consideration for what it is and be fair about it.

 

[Billct2]

[h=2]Do you provide working files?[/h]

No

 

[Brink]

If they ask, my customers get flat single layer jpg unless they want to pay for masters that are editable.

 

[Sidney]

But a company that is willing to spend several $1000s on design work isn't going to go to a sign shop to have it done.

Some of us deal with local mom & pop businesses. Some of us deal with large companies. Some are in the middle. There's no "across the board" rule for giving design files.

There are different reasons a customer wants the editable files. If it's because they want to take their business elsewhere, then you've already lost them as a customer. So, you can give it and hope they come back one day or don't give it and definitely never see them again.

If you did a cool sign layout and never discussed logo design, then they want to adopt that as their logo, that gets tricky because you want to get paid for "creating a logo". I think it's too late to say, "Sure, for $200 I'll give it to you on a disk". That most likely won't fly. The customers don't understand the design world. They don't see the problem of getting their buddy to just recreate what you did.

Sign shops are not graphic design companies but they do overlap from time to time. Just take each situation into consideration for what it is and be fair about it.

I would like to say when I share on these discussions it is because I highly value and love the sign industry and I will never devalue someones experience or point of view.
As we know we are all different. I am friends with many sign shops and we do have customers invest thousands of dollars into logo/branding their businesses. I would say 90% of my customers come to me for creating a brand which includes logo design, an overall image, etc. I literally had a meeting with a large sign business owner and GraphixCALC Sign Estimator customer in Florida. His main source of business is creating logos and building brands(an image) for all businesses (mom & pop shops thru corporate). I am a professional artist that owns/ runs a custom sign business and in return my client base is those looking for something that is truly original. There is no "across the board" formula...we just have to keep a value for what we provide and setting yourself aside from others

Thank you for the discussion. All points discussed are truly valid.