Only if I charged a design fee.
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Design Files...free to client?
- Thread starter jchristians
- Start date
Posterboy
New Member
It falls into a legal grey area of intellectual property. As I understand it, unless the designer signs a transfer of ownership form, then the IP actually remains with the designer, even though they have been hired to produce the work. Unless you stipulate the transfer of ownership in your paperwork, then the designer is well within their rights to charge a transfer fee to release artwork files.
That said if I get paid to do artwork, then as far as I'm concerned the files are their's. I know it is often a sign they may be going elsewhere, but being a ***** about releasing their artwork isn't going to make them want to stay anymore. Besides you don't know what they need it for. I've had clients ask for design files that were getting ad's designed for newspapers and websites. The way I see it being free with the files gives me an opportunity to talk to them, strengthening the relationship, and makes me a resource they will stay in touch with, after all people buy from people.
That said if I get paid to do artwork, then as far as I'm concerned the files are their's. I know it is often a sign they may be going elsewhere, but being a ***** about releasing their artwork isn't going to make them want to stay anymore. Besides you don't know what they need it for. I've had clients ask for design files that were getting ad's designed for newspapers and websites. The way I see it being free with the files gives me an opportunity to talk to them, strengthening the relationship, and makes me a resource they will stay in touch with, after all people buy from people.
ddarlak
Go Bills!
exactly how would they be surprised?
Guy comes in to order a SIGN, a few weeks later he needs more of them but has met someone who says I can make them much cheaper. Guy then comes back in and says I need the artwork you created for my signs....
yea, no, you order a sign, you get a sign.
design work, unless asked for ahead of time, which you will then be charged for, is mine until hell freezes over.
once again gino, way off the mark....
Gino
Premium Subscriber
ddarlak, you continually bring a smile to my face. As usual, you still either can't read or comprehend what you do look at. Some things never change, huh ??
The same guy that comes in and orders a sign from you, had you told him up front and had been honest with him the files are yours and not his, he has been informed. He then can make a decision based on your openness. Not telling him how you work, what your policies are and are gonna keep the files, unless he first says something is just plain dishonest. In fact, we have a big sign up in our showroom explaining this and I also discuss this with customers. Now, let's face it, someone coming in for a job sign or 2 truck doors won't need it, unless you feel it is something out of the ordinary, but be real...... why would you keep something you created for someone else, just to overcharge them for it ??
If that's how you or anyone else operates, you mean you are not putting your design time into the actual cost of making that sign ?? You are pricing out the cost of the sign portion only ?? Yeah, right.................. You're all double dipping when you handle it this way. You cost out the material cost, vinyl, prints, assembly, installation, overhead, profit, taxes and your phone time and discussion time.... and you didn't charge for your computer time.....?? Get the fug real. Defending this kinda stoopidness is what gets all of us a bad rap.
Explain your position/policy upfront and you NEVER as in never hafta ask for more money, cause the guy found out you already jipped him.
Off the mark.... you're off your rocker....... :ROFLMAO:
2B
Active Member
This,
Regardless of the option the select they know as soon as they walk in the shop door all artwork is our property until they purchase it. and then it is the artwork NOT the product layout
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Marlene
New Member
as much as it pains me to say this, dd is right about not giving a file away. I totally agree that knowing this should be up front but then why would anyone expect us to work for free and just hand over something we put time and effort into. if the design is original, it should always be a paid for serivce. where things get mixed up most times is defining just what that means. we have on our quotes info that says it was designed for the sole purpose of creating a sign or whatever and offer to sell a file for other purposes past what we are doing. if it is their "art" and you have to make a file that is can be used that would be considered part of the sign cost and for only that job. if they want your cleaned up production ready file, then they pay for it. doesn't matter if it is a file for two truck doors or a $100,000 sign.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
It's just as painful saying his name so many times in one thread, too.
He, and everyone else is right, that you don't give these things away. My point is, the customer should be aware of this choice, upfront. Almost everyone here is saying you just don't give it, but like in your post, you said it's spelled out for the customer beforehand. They are given a chance or a choice.
We are not working for free. If everyone is doing what they say they are doing, they got paid to make that file. Whether or not one wants to split hairs and say it doesn't belong to them..... they paid for it..... right ?? Technically then, it's theirs. If you have it posted or tell them your policy, and they refuse t pay that portion..... are you not going to make the sign ??
Here's my take on this........ rarely does a customer come back and ask for files. However, if they feel they need it to get t-shirts made, a phone book ad or something you don't do..... you're gonna hold the artwork hostage ?? Probably not. Not if you're a good business person. Meaning, you have nothing to fear giving it to them. However, most of the situations sound more like someone has come back, wanting their artwork/files and the sign person feelings are hurt, because they found out the were taken to the cleaners or lost an account. So, they never told the customer of this charge [although] they DID pay for it] and wanna get money for something they've already been paid for before...... maybe even several times.
So, a customer comes in and you quote them $800.00 for a 2' x 3' sign 2-sided. That includes the substrate, the ink, vinyl, overhead, profit and yes, all your time creating the layout and proofs. You're happy, the customer's happy and all ends well. 2 months later, the same guy comes back and says, I need another sign just like that. Do you still have my artwork ?? Yep. Great, then it will look the same, huh ?? You got it. You make it again. Do you still charge the $800, or do you subtract your creative time and proofing back out, since you didn't do it this time around ?? Never mind. He comes back 2 months later and does the same thing. You keep all the charges the same, maybe even give him a 5% discount for being a good customer. He comes back 4 months later and says, can I have my artwork ?? Nope, you never paid me for it and it will cost $295.00 to create it for you. HUH....?? !! ??
Marlene
New Member
It's just as painful saying his name so many times in one thread, too.
He, and everyone else is right, that you don't give these things away. My point is, the customer should be aware of this choice, upfront. Almost everyone here is saying you just don't give it, but like in your post, you said it's spelled out for the customer beforehand. They are given a chance or a choice.
We are not working for free. If everyone is doing what they say they are doing, they got paid to make that file. Whether or not one wants to split hairs and say it doesn't belong to them..... they paid for it..... right ?? Technically then, it's theirs. If you have it posted or tell them your policy, and they refuse t pay that portion..... are you not going to make the sign ??
Here's my take on this........ rarely does a customer come back and ask for files. However, if they feel they need it to get t-shirts made, a phone book ad or something you don't do..... you're gonna hold the artwork hostage ?? Probably not. Not if you're a good business person. Meaning, you have nothing to fear giving it to them. However, most of the situations sound more like someone has come back, wanting their artwork/files and the sign person feelings are hurt, because they found out the were taken to the cleaners or lost an account. So, they never told the customer of this charge [although] they DID pay for it] and wanna get money for something they've already been paid for before...... maybe even several times.
So, a customer comes in and you quote them $800.00 for a 2' x 3' sign 2-sided. That includes the substrate, the ink, vinyl, overhead, profit and yes, all your time creating the layout and proofs. You're happy, the customer's happy and all ends well. 2 months later, the same guy comes back and says, I need another sign just like that. Do you still have my artwork ?? Yep. Great, then it will look the same, huh ?? You got it. You make it again. Do you still charge the $800, or do you subtract your creative time and proofing back out, since you didn't do it this time around ?? Never mind. He comes back 2 months later and does the same thing. You keep all the charges the same, maybe even give him a 5% discount for being a good customer. He comes back 4 months later and says, can I have my artwork ?? Nope, you never paid me for it and it will cost $295.00 to create it for you. HUH....?? !! ??
our quotes are pretty detailed so mine would have the one time set up charge if I set it or they provided a file so any repeat orders wouldn't have that charge. we do get people who will call asking for the file to be e-mailed to someone for shirts or whatever. they may not remember that way back I said it would be a charge for that. I'll send them a quote for sending a file and no one has ever acted like it should be for free. I guess your point and mine is tell them what they are paying for and what they can expect is the way to avoid issues. we don't do ballpark or off the cuff quotes. all our quotes no matter how small the job are offical with everything spelled out for terms and what they can expect from us and what we expect from them
Posterboy
New Member
No one has really mentioned this, but from my experience the easiest way for a client to steal your artwork is to get you to develop it, then wander off with your proof and get it printed elsewhere. When I'm working through the design process, I email them proofs, and they are always 150dpi high max and 100dpi resolution. If you send them vector pdf's for proofing then they can walk with your art and never pay you a cent.
I had a "trusted" client do that to me early on in my 15 years in print, ever since I've made sure those proofs are as low res as possible.
I had a "trusted" client do that to me early on in my 15 years in print, ever since I've made sure those proofs are as low res as possible.
Marlene
New Member
can someone explain why I got a dislike for saying we are upfront with customers and let them know what to expect and spell out what we charge for and another member got a dislike for saying he only send low res proofs so they are hard to steal. what would the "disliker" do? hide cost? send out high res production ready files? just curious
jchristians
New Member
Thanks all for the input!
I agree...if they pay for a design fee up front, then the art is theirs, otherwise it belongs to me and they have only purchased the sign.
For my emailed proofs...I take a screen shot of my design to send to them...they can't do much with resolution at 72.
I agree...if they pay for a design fee up front, then the art is theirs, otherwise it belongs to me and they have only purchased the sign.
For my emailed proofs...I take a screen shot of my design to send to them...they can't do much with resolution at 72.