Suggestions Desktop rotary engraver suggestions for ADA signs

[White Haus]

We're getting more and more requests for ADA style signs w/ braille and tactile.

From my limited knowledge, it seems like laser is the way to go for efficiently cutting tactile etc and I'm looking into a few manufacturers for that.

Where I'm falling short is with finding a decent entry-level rotary engraver for the braille.

It seems there is Roland, Gravotech, Vision etc when it comes to new (aka expensive) machines and there also seems to be literally no older used units on the market. Am I missing any other brands that are worth checking out?

Any advice regarding getting into this without spending 100k on a top of the line engraver and laser? I honestly don't care how slow/loud/ugly this thing is, just want to get something that works and will allow us to do braille.

I want to start small and tinker and not start up more leases until we get more equipment paid off.

PS. If anyone is selling a used desktop rotary engraver or smaller laser please let me know.

 

[zspace]

Those are all good brands. If a good engraver seems too expensive, then my advice is to keep buying from wholesalers until they aren’t. Enrgraving stock isn’t cheap and you will be surprised at the cost of the learning curve. Our Vision is a solid workhorse but it took months of mistakes to start getting an ROI.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Those are all good brands. If a good engraver seems too expensive, then my advice is to keep buying from wholesalers until they aren’t. Enrgraving stock isn’t cheap and you will be surprised at the cost of the learning curve. Our Vision is a solid workhorse but it took months of mistakes to start getting an ROI.

^ this. The learning curve is real. It's not as simple as attaching plastic to an engraver bed and hitting "plot". A typical ADA sign involves multiple materials and different cutting / drilling bits for each one (plus loading/unloading, calibrating each tool every time you swap bits). Finding the right plunge rate, plunge depth, travel speed (and adjusting the software config for each pass), with every material takes time, practice, trial and error (using expensive materials at about $9-10/ft.). You have to get it right every time, else you'll be breaking expensive bits, or having to clean up / sand off lots of edges (and likely scratch the faces in the process). The weeding process is also a pain (same process as weeding vinyl), but plastic "applique" does NOT want to come off (I mean, hell... you just beveled the edges of a 1/32" plastic layer with super strong adhesive -- good luck getting a tool under there to weed out your design without scratching up the face). Then you have braille beads to contend with (precision machined resin balls). If your engraving wasn't done properly, they may not fit / stay in place, or the balls might be too deep. (Yeah, balls deep... I went there. lol). For the braille insertion tool you'll need to pony up $2.5k (the least expensive handheld accessory), $4-5k for one that attaches to the engraver, or you'll need to figure out a way to push the beads in manually (it's not easy). Braille beads are held in by friction, so precision drilling is imperative (they're tiny and static plays hell with 'em). And don't forget you also need special software. I use EngraveLab which includes a braille translator (about $2k)... and of course, the mess / smell that it makes.

And clients wonder why a custom 6" x 8" sign costs over $100 (well sir, I just spent 1.5 hrs making this damn thing...)

ADA is a PITA.

Oh wait.. this wasn't supposed to be rant. My bad. I mean to say... engraving is fun. We love toys! Go for it! LMAO

 

[Superior_Adam]

^ this. The learning curve is real. It's not as simple as attaching plastic to an engraver bed and hitting "plot". A typical ADA sign involves multiple materials and different cutting / drilling bits for each one (plus loading/unloading, calibrating each tool every time you swap bits). Finding the right plunge rate, plunge depth, travel speed (and adjusting the software config for each pass), with every material takes time, practice, trial and error (using expensive materials at about $9-10/ft.). You have to get it right every time, else you'll be breaking expensive bits, or having to clean up / sand off lots of edges (and likely scratch the faces in the process). The weeding process is also a pain (same process as weeding vinyl), but plastic "applique" does NOT want to come off (I mean, hell... you just beveled the edges of a 1/32" plastic layer with super strong adhesive -- good luck getting a tool under there to weed out your design without scratching up the face). Then you have braille beads to contend with (precision machined resin balls). If your engraving wasn't done properly, they may not fit / stay in place, or the balls might be too deep. (Yeah, balls deep... I went there. lol). For the braille insertion tool you'll need to pony up $2.5k (the least expensive handheld accessory), $4-5k for one that attaches to the engraver, or you'll need to figure out a way to push the beads in manually (it's not easy). Braille beads are held in by friction, so precision drilling is imperative (they're tiny and static plays hell with 'em). And don't forget you also need special software. I use EngraveLab which includes a braille translator (about $2k)... and of course, the mess / smell that it makes.

And clients wonder why a custom 6" x 8" sign costs over $100 (well sir, I just spent 1.5 hrs making this damn thing...)

ADA is a PITA.

Oh wait.. this wasn't supposed to be rant. My bad. I mean to say... engraving is fun. We love toys! Go for it! LMAO

We laser cut the raised lettering and use a Xenetech to punch the holes for the braille and hand punch the beads. No where near 1.5 hours to make 1 sign, maybe 10-15 minutes max.

 

[Superior_Adam]

In all reality you can buy one of those xtools laser engravers and a vision 1212 engraver and be under $20,000. Then Accent Signage for the license and tool probably $2,500-$3,000. You have to make a lot of ADA signs to make up that money. If you don't have other business to use a laser and engraver on it would not be worth the investment.

 

[JBurton]

there also seems to be literally no older used units on the market

I keep my eye on old engravers, see them going for all sorts of different prices. Here's a new hermes engraver that is a steal:

IS6000 Engraver /Gravograph Hermes CHEAP | eBay

<p>Removed it from university / Gravostyle 98 is already installed in computer No software disc included but software is installed. Please take a look of all pictures and contact me with any questions. </p><p>Doing local pickup only or if you arrange shipping </p><p>Message me if interested </p>

www.ebay.com

 

[White Haus]

Thanks guys, appreciate the info. That gives me lots to think about and look into.

I get it's kind of like the newbies that come on here and say I wanna start making signs for cheap! Outsource until you can justify proper equipment is usually also my advice/train of thought.

I've got almost 20 years of playing with plotters, printers and a couple of years of playing with a flatbed cutter/CNC so I'm not totally clueless when it comes to learning curves and ROI on equipment.

That being said, I appreciate the feedback and warnings. I realize unless you've got a bunch of money to dump into brand new equipment and training, it's not easy to jump into this and I don't plan on doing so blindly.

Our demand is a bit sporadic at the moment but it's slowly increasing. We may also have more and more opportunities to do other things with an engraver/laser so that's all going to be considered in the decision(s).

 

[tulsagraphics]

We laser cut the raised lettering and use a Xenetech to punch the holes for the braille and hand punch the beads. No where near 1.5 hours to make 1 sign, maybe 10-15 minutes max.

Yeah, a laser engraver would definitely help out.