Did you file for PPP?

[MI Bearcat]

But it will be interesting to see if your sales don't decline during the period if it will still be turned into a grant. I'm paying my employees to sit at home but if your employees are still working and generating the same amount of sales than it definitely shouldn't be turned into a grant.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

But it will be interesting to see if your sales don't decline during the period if it will still be turned into a grant. I'm paying my employees to sit at home but if your employees are still working and generating the same amount of sales than it definitely shouldn't be turned into a grant.

Did it say that in the loan? I don't recall it specifying a required amount of decline in income. The largest industry to receive loans was construction and it looks like they are not shut down in any state.

 

[Jeremiah]

But it will be interesting to see if your sales don't decline during the period if it will still be turned into a grant. I'm paying my employees to sit at home but if your employees are still working and generating the same amount of sales than it definitely shouldn't be turned into a grant.

Just a question.... Why would a business owner pay employees to sit at home? They can get unemployment and they get the 1200.00 from Gov. I am owner and I still work in shop every day 10 hours. There are TONS of things for me to do. Other than the small amount of orders that come in, there are upgrades and money making projects that I have to work on.

 

[unclebun]

Just a question.... Why would a business owner pay employees to sit at home? They can get unemployment and they get the 1200.00 from Gov. I am owner and I still work in shop every day 10 hours. There are TONS of things for me to do. Other than the small amount of orders that come in, there are upgrades and money making projects that I have to work on.

It was considered cheaper to have the businesses pay the unemployment, and faster, than to have the government do it.

 

[unclebun]

Thanks - I'm eating at Shake Shack next opportunity. I can see the challenge - govt. wanted to get money out ASAP to enable businesses to retain employees; to fully vet borrowers for need would have slowed the whole train down so you get problems like that. Not sure I understand hedge funds enough to say anything intelligent about it other than if hedge funds are like any other business than investors pulling out would seem to have a negative impact, and investors are certainly pulling out of other investments. Since they cater to high worth investors, we automatically assume everyone associated is making piles of money so understandable to be skeptical.

That's exactly it. It's just like how the real estate bubble was caused by the program designed to get more blacks into home ownership. They wrote it to be non-discriminatory, and unwittingly opened up the whole house-flipping scheme, which depended on the sketchy home loans program not requiring as much equity as mortgages traditionally did. That drove up housing prices, and created instant millionaires, until it didn't.

Hedge funds are not operating on the edge of solvency. They can absorb a 2 month decline. Besides, by their nature, their purpose is to make money whether markets are going up or down. Here's a description from the Hedge Fund Marketing Association:

A simple hedge fund definition is: a hedge fund is an alternative investment that is designed to protect investment portfolios from market uncertainty, while generating positive returns in both up and down markets. Throughout time investors have looked for ways to maximize profits while minimizing risk.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Just a question.... Why would a business owner pay employees to sit at home? They can get unemployment and they get the 1200.00 from Gov. I am owner and I still work in shop every day 10 hours. There are TONS of things for me to do. Other than the small amount of orders that come in, there are upgrades and money making projects that I have to work on.

There are quite a few reasons.
It takes a long time to find and train employees so it can be cheaper to hang on to them rather than start over again
If unemployment numbers start hitting the teens or over, you will certainly have a major collapse.
If employers retain employees, it will make a restart virtually immediate
Unemployment is overwhelmed and taking a long time to receive, some people care about their employees well being
Businesses are typically much slower at re-hiring than they are at layoffs which would prolong a bad economic situation
The feeling of security with solid employment is better for people's health and mental well being vs sitting home with an insecure future.

 

[Jeremiah]

There are quite a few reasons.
It takes a long time to find and train employees so it can be cheaper to hang on to them rather than start over again
If unemployment numbers start hitting the teens or over, you will certainly have a major collapse.
If employers retain employees, it will make a restart virtually immediate
Unemployment is overwhelmed and taking a long time to receive, some people care about their employees well being
Businesses are typically much slower at re-hiring than they are at layoffs which would prolong a bad economic situation
The feeling of security with solid employment is better for people's health and mental well being vs sitting home with an insecure future.

Thank you for all the input. But " sit at home"? I have one employee and if he wants a check he must work. Our business has done well enough that we did not apply for a loan. We can keep him on the payroll if he works. Our profit from previous jobs .

 

[Signed Out]

Anybody applying for the save small business grant? App went live at 3:00pm today and I can't get through the site to teh app. Any luck for anybody?

 

[Reveal1]

Thank you for all the input. But " sit at home"? I have one employee and if he wants a check he must work. Our business has done well enough that we did not apply for a loan. We can keep him on the payroll if he works. Our profit from previous jobs .

Thank you for all the input. But " sit at home"? I have one employee and if he wants a check he must work. Our business has done well enough that we did not apply for a loan. We can keep him on the payroll if he works. Our profit from previous jobs .

Fair enough, but in our case we've been paying salaries for 4 weeks as business continued to decline to to a small fraction. Reached a point where we would need to lay off. To add to what NotReal said, that means increased unemployment insurance costs (in MO if not elsewhere, your rates partially determined by utilization), I'll probably have the cleanest shop this side of the Mississippi, but will find SOMETHING for them to do including cross training and some charitable work. Plus the grant pays my salary and some other costs meaning we'll all be on firmer ground when we finally emerge from this.

 

[WYLDGFI]

Anybody applying for the save small business grant? App went live at 3:00pm today and I can't get through the site to teh app. Any luck for anybody?

Site took a dump and they're working on it. Trying for it myself as well....

Thankfully, I have only cut hours...and not laid people off. We have work coming in and are sustaining the hours I have available to my guys but that's about it. Shop is clean...maintainence to be done....some work to be done also. Looking at new sources of work and revenue as well during this time period.

 

[MI Bearcat]

Thank you for all the input. But " sit at home"? I have one employee and if he wants a check he must work. Our business has done well enough that we did not apply for a loan. We can keep him on the payroll if he works. Our profit from previous jobs .

Because the governor has a stay at home directive except for critical employees required to complete essential work. My designer can work from home and I'm the only one coming into work except for one other person on call if I need him to complete jobs. I'm not going to have them come into work everyday to sit around or do cleaning. I'm obeying the law as much as I can. The PPP requires you to keep them on payroll instead of having them file unemployment and that is the reason they are giving out the money. They also get to keep their benefits.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There is always something to do, even at home. Shop maintenance, remodel your showroom, come up with a better work flow plan and rearrange the shop for it. Come up with a marketing plan, make collateral materials and start sending it out or be ready to execute as soon as it opens up. Make templates for the cheap signs everyone complains about so they don't eat up time. Make some wrap designs to have ready. Re-letter your shop truck, redo your business sign, do a wall wrap, floor graphics for inside of your shop. Make a nice booklet or brochure to handout.
We have been making banners and sending them out as freebies. It keeps us in touch with our customers and they have a visual reminder if they need something. They're cheap and its better than sweeping a hole in the floor.

 

[Reveal1]

I 'furloughed' the employees but called them back for two days for a spurt of business. They were able to get 3 days state unemployment, two days pay from me, plus $600 from the Fed. Made more than I pay in a week. Crazy. Anyway, they are back to work full time. Even so, they are happy to have some normalcy for the next 8 weeks at least.

Because the governor has a stay at home directive except for critical employees required to complete essential work. My designer can work from home and I'm the only one coming into work except for one other person on call if I need him to complete jobs. I'm not going to have them come into work everyday to sit around or do cleaning. I'm obeying the law as much as I can. The PPP requires you to keep them on payroll instead of having them file unemployment and that is the reason they are giving out the money. They also get to keep their benefits.

Different by State - in MO outside the large metro areas we can be 'non-essential' and legally open as long as social distancing and occupancy rules followed. Hence we closed our showroom but open for production where we work all day well away from each other. I would argue PPP is an economic program intended to keep people employed in a variety of circumstances, as well as providing some relief to small businesses in the form of pay for the owners/sole proprieters (not normally covered by unemployment) and expenses (rent, utilities, interest) to help keep small business afloat. Not really intended as a blanket national incentive NOT to work.

 

[Jeremiah]

Finally .

 

[binki]

We were never able to get through to the final application before the money ran out. The websites kept crashing. It really doesn't matter because it looks like the banks were not taking first come, first serve but largest loan amounts first which was against the order. I see that Wells Fargo and one other bank are now being sued for doing this and some of these companies like Shake Shack have given back the money after being embarrassed that they took millions while the small guys got nothing.

As for WF, I would expect nothing less of them to rip off their customers.

 

[unclebun]

There were no websites necessary to apply for the PPP. You downloaded the pdf of the application form, which my bank also emailed me, but all the paperwork was submitted to your local bank. I emailed it, but I could also have taken it there on paper.

The EIDL was on the SBA website, and I did submit the application for that on their website the day it came out, since the PPP application wasn't ready yet. I have an application number and it said I would be emailed for details, but I never heard back on that one.

I didn't encounter any website crashing at all.

 

[binki]

I applied for the EIDL as well however I have never heard anything from them except they cut the amount from $10K advance to $1K advance per employee. Nothing else, no money in my account or anything. It looks like the banks that were taking applications did not follow the rules and processed the loans in order of amount from largest down. Unless you asked for $10 Million, forget it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There were no websites necessary to apply for the PPP. You downloaded the pdf of the application form, which my bank also emailed me, but all the paperwork was submitted to your local bank. I emailed it, but I could also have taken it there on paper.

The EIDL was on the SBA website, and I did submit the application for that on their website the day it came out, since the PPP application wasn't ready yet. I have an application number and it said I would be emailed for details, but I never heard back on that one.

I didn't encounter any website crashing at all.

The big banks that theyre talking about had online applications. You couldnt print out anything and go turn it in to a local branch.

 

[AMGearhart]

I'm hearing all over that Ruth's Chris got $20 million. That is a chunk.

https://www.gq.com/story/ruths-chris-small-business-steakhouse

 

[Stacey K]

I just applied through my local bank. It took me less than an hour. Hopefully there is more money soon. Not my numbers but another business I know applied. Got $75,000. Approximately $18k should be forgivable and the remainder $56k will be at a 1% loan amount over 18 months starting in November. Even if NONE of your loan is forgivable a 1% loan can be used to pay off other higher loans or keep it in case this crap happens again in Fall. That is my understanding...