Different CMYK values for one Pantone-color

[Coert]

Hi guys,

I've received two different file's from the same client.
The file's containing a color named Pantone 286U.

I've got the different values;
- One contains a book color (LAB) and if I change it to CMYK I get: 89,26% C, 67,71% M, 0%Y, 0%K.
- One contains a spot color in CMYK mode, I get: 100% C, 66% M, 0% Y, 2% K.

I'm working with Abobe Illustrator CC.
How do I know which one is the right color?

 

[dypinc]

Do you have a Pantone book for reference? If not you don't know what the right color is.

 

[SlikGRFX]

Why do you need to convert to CMYK?

The CMYK values are irrelevant for accurate colour matching/production. The actual printed colour will depend on many different factors.

 

[Oroscoe]

Pantone to CMYK Conversion Chart - Stocksigns.ca
C-100, M-66, Y-0, K-2

 

[tulsagraphics]

Hi guys,

I've received two different file's from the same client.
The file's containing a color named Pantone 286U.

I've got the different values;
- One contains a book color (LAB) and if I change it to CMYK I get: 89,26% C, 67,71% M, 0%Y, 0%K.
- One contains a spot color in CMYK mode, I get: 100% C, 66% M, 0% Y, 2% K.

I'm working with Abobe Illustrator CC.
How do I know which one is the right color?

I wouldn't worry about the LAB conversion. Color mode/swatch conversions are never 1:1 (for a variety of technical reasons). You already know the PMS color, and the spot color in the customer's file wasn't created by accident. That's the one you should be using. And you can always locate the Pantone Uncoated color book in Illustrator to examine the color values it gives you and compare with what's in your document. Just make sure all the appropriate elements use the same 286U spot color. Send a test print and compare to a physical uncoated swatch.

 

[Nightowl]

Hi guys,

I've received two different file's from the same client.
The file's containing a color named Pantone 286U.

I've got the different values;
- One contains a book color (LAB) and if I change it to CMYK I get: 89,26% C, 67,71% M, 0%Y, 0%K.
- One contains a spot color in CMYK mode, I get: 100% C, 66% M, 0% Y, 2% K.

I'm working with Abobe Illustrator CC.
How do I know which one is the right color?

the cmyk equivalent for 286 (either uncoated or coated is 100/66/0/2. If they've names the color 286, that's probably the safest bet. If they're working in LAB color, they're probably not keen enough to notice a miniscule color shift.

 

[SlikGRFX]

So if I print CMKY 100/66/0/2 will I get the same colour as the next guy?

 

[Reveal1]

Hi guys,

I've received two different file's from the same client.
The file's containing a color named Pantone 286U.

I've got the different values;
- One contains a book color (LAB) and if I change it to CMYK I get: 89,26% C, 67,71% M, 0%Y, 0%K.
- One contains a spot color in CMYK mode, I get: 100% C, 66% M, 0% Y, 2% K.

I'm working with Abobe Illustrator CC.
How do I know which one is the right color?

You want to use the correct color swatches in Illustrator to match the pprinted Pantone guide you are using. For example we use the Pantone Color Bridge Coated + book, and the corresponding CMYK color swatches can be found in Illustrator Window/Swatches/Library/Color Books. Pantone Color Bridge shows the spot color (or how the color would appear using a pre-mixed spot color such as those used with screen printed inks) with it's RGB values next to a CMYK process print of the color on coated stock.

 

[tulsagraphics]

So if I print CMKY 100/66/0/2 will I get the same colour as the next guy?

The short answer? Nope. (too many variables)

 

[Solventinkjet]

So if I print CMKY 100/66/0/2 will I get the same colour as the next guy?

This question is coming up a lot recently for some reason. A perfect example would be one of my customers runs 2 Mutoh 1624 printers in the same room. This particular customer is a perfectionist and wants, not only the highest quality print, but he wants the colors from both printers to match perfectly. Same printer, same ink, same environment, same software so you would think the printers would print the same exact colors right? Nope. In order to get a perfect matching color on both printers they spent about $3000 and had a Mutoh employee come out for 2 days and teach them how to profile their machines. Their prints come out looking better than any of my other customers and the colors match. So if two exact same machines don't print the same color in the same room without profiling, you can imagine the many factors between you and another shop with a totally different printer and ink.

Also, when you send CMYK values to the RIP they get re-interpreted based on the profile you are using. So if you send 100% Yellow it will actually add some Cyan and Magenta. If you use color correction, the values you put into Illustrator are not the ones the RIP is using. Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion. You either need to make your own profiles or print a Pantone chart out, get a real Pantone swatch book and match manually.

 

[Patentagosse]

This question is coming up a lot recently for some reason. A perfect example would be one of my customers runs 2 Mutoh 1624 printers in the same room. This particular customer is a perfectionist and wants, not only the highest quality print, but he wants the colors from both printers to match perfectly. Same printer, same ink, same environment, same software so you would think the printers would print the same exact colors right? Nope. In order to get a perfect matching color on both printers they spent about $3000 and had a Mutoh employee come out for 2 days and teach them how to profile their machines. Their prints come out looking better than any of my other customers and the colors match. So if two exact same machines don't print the same color in the same room without profiling, you can imagine the many factors between you and another shop with a totally different printer and ink.

Also, when you send CMYK values to the RIP they get re-interpreted based on the profile you are using. So if you send 100% Yellow it will actually add some Cyan and Magenta. If you use color correction, the values you put into Illustrator are not the ones the RIP is using. Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion. You either need to make your own profiles or print a Pantone chart out, get a real Pantone swatch book and match manually.

I use a profile that leaves intact my CMYK formulas. When I send a 100% yellow or 100% cyan, there's not a tinny drop of magenta in it. BUT. I'm not telling you my output colors match the Pantone book perfectly. And as I'm picky for colors, YES I spend some times of proofing before printing. Best thing for me is printing PMS and Roland's charts so I can see it on my wall and compare with Pantone's color reference book.

 

[ColorCrest]

Hi guys,
I've received two different file's from the same client.
The file's containing a color named Pantone 286U.

I've got the different values;
- One contains a book color (LAB) and if I change it to CMYK I get: 89,26% C, 67,71% M, 0%Y, 0%K.
- One contains a spot color in CMYK mode, I get: 100% C, 66% M, 0% Y, 2% K.

I'm working with Abobe Illustrator CC.
How do I know which one is the right color?

When you changed the book color (LAB), the conversion referenced settings from Illustrator Color Settings, namely Working Spaces and Conversion Options.

The spot color in CMYK mode values are from a separate lookup library licensed by Pantone to Adobe.

In either case, the values will ultimately get changed at the RIP during processing and a proper setup of workflow and color management should provide just that – manage the color.

It might be one’s job to manage the disparity of the client’s two different files before the RIP (otherwise know as “normalizing” the files). Typically, one references a printed chart of Pantone colors from the machine / ink / media against an actual Pantone book to "know which one is the right color."

Good luck.

 

[EffectiveCause]

I always run a test print of the clients file first and see how close it matches the book. If it's not even close then I'll look up Pantone's official CMYK equivalent, which in this case is 87C-59M-0Y-0K, and do a color correction in the RIP. Now this is normally still slightly off and you will probably still have to adjust a little here and there. But using this method I can normally match a clients color in about 3-4 test prints.

 

[brycesteiner]

I would make sure they are named exactly the same using the built in Pantone Library. Then send it to the RIP/Printer and let it use it's built in color matching because I bet it will do a much better job at getting it right. It's already been profiled and it's built in for that machine. That does not mean you may not have to do tweaking but at least it will be as close as what the mfg believes it should be.
If you do have two different color names and you have objects using both, you can delete the one you don't want in the swatch library and it will ask you if you want to replace or merge it with the other. Just click yes (at least that is how it works in Indesign and I think IL is the same.)

 

[Andy_warp]

Use Book color - Lab and leave as a spot color.
The rip's licensed Pantone library will use the Lab values to convert.

If you're not profiled...it doesn't matter, just make it more tomatoe-y and less cherry-y.

 

[Bobby H]

First thing: anyone specifying Pantone colors should be using an actual physical Pantone swatch book as the primary reference. That's a critical thing if you're going to do color printing in house. Spot color swatch books are nice to have in graphics applications like Adobe Illustrator, but those colors are always going to be suspect when converted into CMYK by the RIP and output from a full color printer. Some colors will be close. Others won't even be in the ballpark.

Swatch books have to be changed out every few years. The colors in the swatch books start to fade over time. Swatch books get worn. Pantone also adds more colors to the books too from time to time. It also helps to look at these colors in proper lighting conditions. If the final product is going to be outside it's a good idea to look at the colors and test prints outside in sun light.

If we're doing a print job where matching the color as closely as possible is a critical thing then we'll make a test print with a bunch of color blocks using several different CMYK formulas. We'll start with the stock formula Illustrator, CorelDRAW or whatever provides and then work out from there, choosing the formula that works best on our specific software/hardware setup. A formula that works on our setup will probably not be valid on another sign company's setup due to many different variables.

Finally, customers have to be educated about the limitations of CMYK printing. Expectations can go only so high. Quite a few Pantone spot colors have color values that extend beyond the limits of the CMYK gamut range. Some of these spot colors are impossible to match perfectly even with printers using extra ink colors. We have a HP Latex printer that uses extra ink colors such as light magenta and light cyan inks in addition to the usual CMYK inks. Even it is no match for certain colors in the Pantone swatch book (and that's not even getting into the metallic colors or fluorescent colors).