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Direct to coro prints scratch easily (Dark colors not bonding)

sfr table hockey

sfr table hockey

New Member
I used 4over for some coro prints. This was the first time I have ordered these and was wondering if it was normal that the ink lifted easily?

I assume that they are flatbed printed but the dark colors, they are easily scratched or the ink lifted. The one batch I had to laminate anyway and there was a white boarder around the print so the laminate was not an issue and stuck well.

On another job the print had solid print to the edge and was a dark green background. Again I needed to laminate anyway but if I were to lift the laminate the slightest bit, once it had been laid down, it would pull the entire print off the coro with it. There seems to be no bonding to the coro at all on the darker colors.

When I had called 4over to ask about this they had said that darker colors will scratch more easily and do this. Is this true or is there other issues? Is the PVC material they offer going to be any better?

All the other things they have printed like flyers and posters have all been great, but this coro stuff may not be such a good thing.

Any thoughts?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
This might sound silly, but Cor-X is about at the bottom of the substrate barrel when direct printing. Therefore, you can't say you get what you pay for. Also, nowadays, it's hard to be sure your vendors are sending you decent quality Cor-X. We find some print wonderfully and then the next batch might be a disaster. We have profiles set up just for Cor-X, but the problem seems to be, certain colors won't look the same if a customer is buying some of this and some of that. While just a few yerars ago when we were screen printing or putting down die-cut vinyl, it was the cat's meow. With this flatbed stuff, it's almost like it's cursed.

We had signs outside which look totally blank after a year or so. Has no bearing in what direction they face. Just looks like someone sandblasted the panel one day. We have other panels out where certain colors are gone and other colors still look fine. They might be totally opposite on either side. We're only giving our Cor-X signs a 1 year durability offer with no warranty attached. They are now a truly temporary exterior sign substrate.

One thing.... it seems the longer they just sit around and do nothing, the stronger they get. In other words, we had some where we cut them the same afternoon and others that we took a week to cut. The ones we left go for a week cut without a scratch.

Go figure............ :frustrated:
​
 
sfr table hockey

sfr table hockey

New Member
You are right Gino that they are temp. signs, I just hope the one batch makes it the 2 to 3 months that they intended it for.



J hill,

I have never looked at signs365 as most times freight to Canada kills the order to make it worth it. 4over are in Eastern Canada so at least it is a bit better for freight.

Are you saying that the coro, signs365 uses and their print, will be a better product and not scratch as easily?

Thanks for both your input.
 
Biker Scout

Biker Scout

New Member
There are a lot of variables when it comes to UV ink and adhering to any kind of plastics. Some of the larger, more production oriented flatbeds are actually the worst offenders. As many offer their own suggested ink formulations. But here's the rub... (haha) Some of those formulations are so single minded that they will offer inks that fall in a very specific rage of substrates. Some will adhere to glass without a pre-treatment. Some will adhere to acrylic really well, but not before a thorough wipe down of the substrate with their "special" cleaner. Corrugated Plastics will often times fall under the "Acceptable" category with the inks that adhere to low energy surfaces. (Called Cross Linking) But this ink set is usually priced higher and not a considered a "Universal" in it's application. Seriously doubt that a large place like 4over would change out the inks for each job, rather than just run the cheapest ink sets they can get from their supplier. Pre-treatment... what's that? You mean we have to pay employees to wipe down every substrate?

Then there's the whole treatment of the corrugated plastics from the manufacturer. The main one is called Corona Treatment. If a sheet of PVC isn't even wiped down with something like alcohol, it's hard enough to get vinyl to last on the surface. Much less if it's not coming from the manufacturer corona treated, then the ink will literally fall off. And corona treatment can wear off just sitting on a pallet in a warehouse. Also, PVC panels that are corona treated of course are more expensive than those that are not. I promise you, a place as large as 4over will get their PVC panels by the container load, by the metric ton. Corona treatment does and will wear off on an overseas journey. Which is why you can buy a device to corona treat your substrates before you place them on the printer.

Bottom line: Some inks better than others with or without a pre-treatment wipe down. Large fast, super cheap wholesale printers probably aren't aware or don't care about the subtle ink differences. They just have a $250k printer they have to pay off. Quality name brand corrugated plastics made specifically for flatbed UV printing applications usually cost more per piece.

Using a smaller, more knowledgable wholesale company will know the variables and the pitfalls of such inks and their substrates and can advise accordingly, or make things right. As their reputation relies on it. 4over doesn't care. They know people will continue to use them even if they suck, because they are cheap. And would be completely content to be running an automated, people free operation. I swear, I think "4over" employs "4people" per location.
 
sfr table hockey

sfr table hockey

New Member
Well, I think I learned my lesson with regards to the coro prints from 4over.

What I got may be the best they can offer and yes, the cost is low, but what good is it if they don’t last a month.
I now know a little bit more about direct to coro printing.

Thanks
 
Zendavor Signs

Zendavor Signs

Mmmmm....signs
We have had 2 different manufacturers of UV printers, and 3 different ink types. On all 3 inks, pretreatment with chemical makes night and day difference for ink adhesion when printing coro. With our current setup coro is the only material that still requires pretreatment. I would venture to say it is due to it being an extremely cheap material.
 
VISCOM

VISCOM

New Member
Zendavor Signs said:
We have had 2 different manufacturers of UV printers, and 3 different ink types. On all 3 inks, pretreatment with chemical makes night and day difference for ink adhesion when printing coro. With our current setup coro is the only material that still requires pretreatment. I would venture to say it is due to it being an extremely cheap material.
Click to expand...

what brand of printers do you have????
 
johnnysigns

johnnysigns

New Member
I thought that 4over used FB6100s for this type of product and if they're on the OEM HP inks that's the issue. HP has all kinds of issues with coro adhesion on the FB6100s.

Polymeric's hyflex ink sticks to even old coro on our FB6100.
 
K

klmiller611

New Member
Question on Pretreatment of Coro

I've followed this thread and previous ones on the pretreatment of coro with interest. We have the AGFA Anapurna Mv with AGFA inks. Dark color on coro where it has to be cut tends to chip, pretty badly. I've gotten the recommended coro, enteplast, and run the lamps on high to improve the cure. Normally, if possible, I let the sheet sit for a day or so prior to cutting, but that, of course, is not always convenient or possible. Getting the coro in smaller batches seems to help some.

I am curious on the pretreatment, I've tried to clean the boards with denatured alcohol with no success. When I go back and print, particularly something with a background color, you can see every mark from the clean paper towel used to wipe it down.

It does not seem to matter how careful I am, the paper towels are brand new off the roll, the board is not that dirty to start with. Anyone else with the same ink sets having issues, I'd love to have suggestions.

Thanks
Ken
 
10sacer

10sacer

New Member
Coro on flatbed

I print a ton of Coro and Inteplast brand - both opaque and standard.
I print with a CET 500Q with their 60 series inks and have not had any issues with ink adhesion or splitting.
I wipe down each sheet with 91% alcohol from Walmart and carry on.
 
10sacer

10sacer

New Member
klmiller611 said:
I've followed this thread and previous ones on the pretreatment of coro with interest. We have the AGFA Anapurna Mv with AGFA inks. Dark color on coro where it has to be cut tends to chip, pretty badly. I've gotten the recommended coro, enteplast, and run the lamps on high to improve the cure. Normally, if possible, I let the sheet sit for a day or so prior to cutting, but that, of course, is not always convenient or possible. Getting the coro in smaller batches seems to help some.

I am curious on the pretreatment, I've tried to clean the boards with denatured alcohol with no success. When I go back and print, particularly something with a background color, you can see every mark from the clean paper towel used to wipe it down.

It does not seem to matter how careful I am, the paper towels are brand new off the roll, the board is not that dirty to start with. Anyone else with the same ink sets having issues, I'd love to have suggestions.

Thanks
Ken
Click to expand...

Try using microfiber cloths that you would use to wash a car with instead of paper towels. We actually use a Quickie floor sweeper with a microfiber pad and it makes quick work of wiping a board. When dirty - you just pull of cover and wash and reapply.
 
VISCOM

VISCOM

New Member
I have a AGFA M2 with AGFA Inks.... I use a adhesion promoter INX from Pitman $60.00 Liter
great adhesion on Coroplast...
 
K

klmiller611

New Member
10sacer said:
Try using microfiber cloths that you would use to wash a car with instead of paper towels. We actually use a Quickie floor sweeper with a microfiber pad and it makes quick work of wiping a board. When dirty - you just pull of cover and wash and reapply.
Click to expand...

Are you speaking of just cleaning dust and dirt using a dry microfiber cloth or using some sort of cleaning fluid?

Ken
 
VISCOM

VISCOM

New Member
wet the towel with the INX adhesion promoter and buff it on the coro... 20 boards D/S or more
 
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