DMCA Notice Received from Aurora Graphics

[futuredcon]

Ironic. Quote "For openers, Signs 101 will no longer permit advertising of any software product for sale from Aurora Graphics" Unquote

the banner on your forum website from one of your advertisers wrapvinyl.com sells Aurora products.

 

[iSign]

Funny. Quote "For openers, Signs 101 will no longer permit advertising of any software product for sale from Aurora Graphics" Unquote

the banner on your forum website from one of your advertisers wrapvinyl.com sells Aurora products.

funny?
Is that supposed to be some impressive investigative journalism or something? Lots of company's sell Aurora, and Fred used to sell it himself. He diesn't have an axe to grind with Aurora, and wouldn't ever have reason to care of a sponsor of this site sells Aurora products... he simply gave us all a heads up about the reason for removing a post, and a notification about a new ruling about future for sale posts not being allowed for second hand Aurora products

 

[grafixemporium]

If Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics, produced an original software product containing unique and one-of-a-kind graphics, I might consider actually reading his side of this argument. However, since Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics is peddling regurgitated textures made from Eye Candy filters, all I can do is laugh at Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics. I hadn't planned on buying Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphic's product in the first place... but you can bet your a$$ I'm not gonna buy it now.

I'm surprised Alien Skin hasn't served up Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics, with a cease and desist yet.

 

[B Snyder]

Me thinks Mr. Dorsey really shit the bed on this one.

 

[iSign]

Me thinks Mr. Dorsey really shit the bed on this one.

..wait, that's Mr. Dave Dorsey, comma, President (with a capital P), comma, Aurora Graphics ...

 

[Bigdawg]

So Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics.... I waited until I was just a wee bit calmer and Fred could respond before I decided to tell you what a piece of work I think you are... not that it really matters... I think I made my feelings about you and your company known earlier when I realized you think your customers are a bunch of thievin' b@s!ards.

You sign up here a year and a half ago, but never bother to post. Not once. Until you waltz in here and call Fred out because he wouldn't do what you wanted. Well guess what, Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics, you came into our house, called out one of the most respected members of the sign community and made an ass of yourself doing it.

See, Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics - while you apparently had no idea what kind of ethics, morals or downright fairness Fred runs this forum with, the rest of us here on signs101 know what kind of integrity he has. And I could have read through the drivel you posted without getting my panties in a wad if you hadn't implied - no stated as some kind of fact - otherwise. Now THAT pisses me off.

Unlike some others, I don't necessarily think you had someone else write that letter for you because I spent 3 years in public relations for a major hospital chain. I know how to handle public relations when something like this occurs. Pat nailed it on the head on how you SHOULD have handled it. How I would have handled it. How any PR professional except Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics would have handled it. But I'd be willing to bet that you didn't fly that little letter past your marketing/public relations people because it never would have been posted here if you had. And if you did, my professional advice would be to fire the lot of 'em.

You let your temper get the better of you and instead of turning a situation to your advantage... you pissed a whole lotta' people off. Not to mention that "facts" (and I use that term loosely in this case, Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics) in your post bear some closer scrutiny... I have bought used software before - legally.

What Fred did here was to post information that was pertinent to the sign industry. Your EULA is buried and you VERY OBVIOUSLY didn't want people to know about it easily. He informed us of what transpired without slamming your company, you or anything your company produces. He even spoke up and defended your product.

Too bad you don't have that kind of class, Mr. Dave Dorsey, President, Aurora Graphics

 

[iSign]

Good post Bigdawg, very good post!

 

[ddarlak]

yea dave you kinda shit the bed here...

PR is everything, think before you act/speak, it's your companies REP at stake.....

that being said, this little explosion of bad press wouldn't stop me from buying your software if it was something i needed.....

but i don't.....

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

If Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics, produced an original software product containing unique and one-of-a-kind graphics, I might consider actually reading his side of this argument. However, since Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics is peddling regurgitated textures made from Eye Candy filters, all I can do is laugh at Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics. I hadn't planned on buying Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphic's product in the first place... but you can bet your a$$ I'm not gonna buy it now.

I'm surprised Alien Skin hasn't served up Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics, with a cease and desist yet.

did you type "Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics" every time or did you copy and paste? :ROFLMAO:

 

[iSign]

...this little explosion of bad press wouldn't stop me from buying your software if it was something i needed.....

contrary to some of the "sheep" theories, the possibility of a trend away from buying, or valuing products from DD, P, AG is NOT the "bad press" ...the possibility of a trend away from buying, or valuing these products is that they do not retain any resale value.

Sure, a product that pays for itself several times over can be a good investment... but what makes it pay for itself is a good sales person/designer, who appreciates those images, and who's clients appreciate those images, and who remains in the business of moving those images to those clients.

For someone who turns out not to be a good sales person/designer, or who turns out not to remain in the business of moving those images to those clients... other similar image collections will retain some resale value. I would have expected the same of products from DD, P, AG.

I expected wrong, I won't buy anymore products from DD, P, AG, & I appreciate Fred drawing attention to this lack of resale value issue. I also still have a brown box for sale available outside the confines of signs101... & there is a free, non-transferable PrintCraft Pro Fills Suite DVD that I can't legally throw in the box with it Bummer...

 

[zmatalucci]

He seems super important with the title, "Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics"
Maybe we should see about authorizing some USSS protection for this guy. After all, he did just piss alot of people off!

 

[jscarl]

WOW!!!! Well Mr Dave Dorsey and all that other crap, Me thinks your a@@ is grass with Stacy and about all of the rest of us here at 101. Good post Bigdawg.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

The reference to the image from the disk is still incorporated in the design, saved, and is available when the customer wants to re-order the graphic / sign / whatever.

should i take this to mean that if i design a logo in corel and then turn around an legally sell my version of corel, that i'm not allowed to use that design? because i no longer have the corel license?? i'm confused with all the gibberish....doesn't take much :Big Laugh

 

[iSign]

should i take this to mean that if i design a logo in corel and then turn around an legally sell my version of corel, that i'm not allowed to use that design? because i no longer have the corel license?? i'm confused with all the gibberish....doesn't take much :Big Laugh

No... Corel sold you a license to use their tools to build something, after which you can legally transfer that license to the tools, & yet you can still keep what you built with them.

Clipart collections are a little different, because while you typically can't resell just the clipart, you can use it to design original creations that use elements from your collection, within the parameters of each collections specified guidelines or restrictions.

Dave makes a valid point that if someone legally transfers one of his competitors collections, with no ill intent, & has never copied the entire CD, or willfully stockpiled files on a hard drive... if a select few of the elements that were used during that licensee's time of holding the license end up in those client folders, after transferring the license... a grey area may now exist.

If I go into an old client file & pull out a fill I used from one of fred's collections, after legally transferring that collection... I shouldn't pull that old fill & use it on a new design. That would not be a grey area in my opinion, and would be a clear violation. Where I think Dave gets a little carried away is in filling reorders for a client who's designs were done while I owned the license.

In that situation, I would think the resulting creation, that I made as a legal licensee, and legally "sold" to my client, would then be their property, & reproduction of the original creation containing a clipart element would not subject to any ongoing license requirements.

It will be interesting to hear what Fred will have to say on this. (or DD, P, AG)

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

Where I think Dave gets a little carried away is in filling reorders for a client who's designs were done while I owned the license.

In that situation, I would think the resulting creation, that I made as a legal licensee, and legally "sold" to my client, would then be their property, & reproduction of the original creation containing a clipart element would not subject to any ongoing license requirements.

that's where i was seeing it as completely absurd...i can't very well tell my customer, "oh hey, i sold that clipart collection, so i can no longer print that on your signs..."

and thanks, isign, for helping to clear up my insanity....i'm not having the greatest day so far...

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Wow. What a thread. I can see a lot of finger pointing, jumping to conclusions, and assumptions being thrown about with careless abandon...tearing down a competitor of Mr. Weiss on Mr. Weiss' forum. What a novel approach. As I recall, those Aurora Graphics DVD's sold in like 1 day, so it appears that the seller wasn't affected. I am the publisher / owner of Aurora Graphics. ..............BLAH - blah - BLAH - BLOW - blow - BLOW...........-Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics

Fabulous post Mr. Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics! Without it, as well as Fred's informative and fair public service announcement I would have never known. I might have become another very pissed off customer. You see, Mr. Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics.....This is another example of why I am a contributing member here at Signs101. I can get all of THE FACTS here....get INFORMED and EDUCATED....just as you are now. I'm sorry to see you take the approach that you have. I was considering a purchase of some of your suites but now I can't say that I ever will. Good luck Mr. Dave.
Thanks for another informative PSA Fred!

 

[Pat Whatley]

"Dave Dorsey, President Aurora Graphics" is going to become a punchline.

Told you so...:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 

[Fred Weiss]

No... Corel sold you a license to use their tools to build something, after which you can legally transfer that license to the tools, & yet you can still keep what you built with them.

Clipart collections are a little different, because while you typically can't resell just the clipart, you can use it to design original creations that use elements from your collection, within the parameters of each collections specified guidelines or restrictions.

Dave makes a valid point that if someone legally transfers one of his competitors collections, with no ill intent, & has never copied the entire CD, or willfully stockpiled files on a hard drive... if a select few of the elements that were used during that licensee's time of holding the license end up in those client folders, after transferring the license... a grey area may now exist.

If I go into an old client file & pull out a fill I used from one of fred's collections, after legally transferring that collection... I shouldn't pull that old fill & use it on a new design. That would not be a grey area in my opinion, and would be a clear violation. Where I think Dave gets a little carried away is in filling reorders for a client who's designs were done while I owned the license.

In that situation, I would think the resulting creation, that I made as a legal licensee, and legally "sold" to my client, would then be their property, & reproduction of the original creation containing a clipart element would not subject to any ongoing license requirements.

It will be interesting to hear what Fred will have to say on this. (or DD, P, AG)

I think your explanation is right on.

The fact that a product has delivered value to it's buyer/licensee has nothing to do with the buyer seeking to recover some of his or her investment by selling the product at a later time. And this is never at issue when we are talking about hard goods because one must physically possess the item to benefit and physical possession is surrendered when the item is sold.

Software presents other problems and there are different ways to deal with it. With clipart and digital art collections, the commonly accepted way is to create a printed user guide for the collection that makes the collection more efficient to use and without it leaves the collection quite difficult to use. It becomes the hard goods portion of the product. So when one of our licensees wants to transfer rights, we can be comfortable with that because we know the user guide will have to go with it. Our license clearly states in the transfer of rights portion that the original licensee agrees to destroy all archives of our files. It would never occur to me that I would carry that through to jobs already created. That represents the value I delivered to the original licensee from which I benefited by making a sale.

So as long as the original licensee creates no new projects from my artwork, I am satisfied with the passing on of his or her rights for whatever value may be had.

One might ask why Aurora has not protected their artwork as described with a user guide. While I have no direct knowledge as to their true reasons, I will share an insight into a phenomenon we have experienced as a seller of clipart and digital art collections.

We do most of our marketing by telephone with websites in support for any prospective buyer to examine the goods. Part of what we experience in this process is a small percentage of buyers who want to return a collection after receiving it and flipping through the user guide but not breaking the seal on the media disk. It happens for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with the artwork in the collection and we accept it as part of our sales process.

Here's the phenomenon ... We almost never had a request for a return on an Aurora product or any other collection that was sold without a printed user guide. The one thing each of these products has in common is the lack of a printed user guide and a gallery of the images in the collection.

We gained more insight into the phenomenon when we made the next scheduled phone call to our clients ... typically once every three months. What we discovered was that without a printed user guide most had never looked at the collection and after several months had not used it or browsed through it. Therefore, they never felt the urge to return it.

 

[Deaton Design]

All good points, and I think Doug hit it on the head. Anything you made while owning the collection or whatever, you should be able to use on and on, as in customer files that have the fills, clipart, whatever. New creations are another matter. If you sell the collections and keep a copy of them yourself, thats a no-no.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Uhm Mr. Dave Dorsey, comma, President (with a capital P), comma, Aurora Graphics ...let's be clear here. Fred Weiss is not bashing you or your product...but the majority of the sign industry is. Maybe you should separate yourself from your ego and listen to what could have been a good many potential clients of yours (and a good many ex-customers of yours) are saying and take notes....but at this point you've done a pretty good job of alienating yourself, your company and your products... way to go..great marketing..great way to stand up and state your 'position'.. you've hurt yourself more than anyone else could have.