DOA Printer from (now unresponsive) Out of State Broker - Advice on reparations?

[Stinky Prints]

Any interstate commerce legal pros out there?

Yes, before we start, I knew better, so go ahead, "I told you so, don't buy from brokers" ...but I have in the past and have ok experiences with used equipment, and cannot afford new from any of our reigonal reps, so thought this purchase was a reasonable risk.

We purchased a HP Pagewide from a broker (for about $7k) on the east coast and the printer wasn't property decomissioned for shipping, arrived DOA and ultimately required about $2k for HP to fix. Also the machine is unique in that it was manufactured by HP to be only used under contact with Konica Minolta service and supply - this was not disclosed prior to purchase. This means I can only find the 843B ink on ebay at this point.

There was no visible damage to the exterior of the machine when it arrived, so we didn't know the lift mechanisim was broken until we brought it into our shop and began the install process. Obviously too late to refuse shipment.

I'm in Wyoming, broker is in New England. The broker claimed they were going to try to get the shipping company to cough up the money for the repair and has gone totally dark since then. While I'd rather just work something out with the broker at this point, and even take a small hit on splitting the repair costs to put this to rest amicably, they have gone completely dark and will not respond to any of my communication. So, now I'm gathering the kindling to pursue all legal routes for getting my money back, as well as prepping a review of the broker on every online forum I know of to help protect all of you in our community from shady players like this.

I'm hoping there is some legal recourse here in Wyoming and I can pursue a refund from here, but I do have occasion to visit the east coast from time to time and would probably be willing to show up for court if it came to that. I'll spend all of the $2k pursing this if I'm reasonably sure can get it out of the broker at this point. We can't let bad actors like this prey on us small print shop owners!

Alright, anyone been in this situation and have advice on how to resolve?

Thanks!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

We buy and sell used equipment all of the time. It's a risk you take when buying used and we have been bit plenty of times. We test everything, fix things, get it right before it's sold and then it breaks as soon as the customer puts it in service. There's nothing you can do as a seller to foresee this sort of thing and I would not be chipping it to fix it either. If you want a warranty then you buy new. Probably not what you wanted to hear but it's par for the course when you buy used.
Also, the buyers will call and ask us how to fix things that broke but we have never had anyone ask us to fork over the cost to do it let alone demand it.

 

[balstestrat]

Yeah good luck with that thing. In Europe HP services it but it really requires service contract. It is just a constant maintenance if you are using it and not just keeping it idle.

 

[Stinky Prints]

We buy and sell used equipment all of the time. It's a risk you take when buying used and we have been bit plenty of times. We test everything, fix things, get it right before it's sold and then it breaks as soon as the customer puts it in service. There's nothing you can do as a seller to foresee this sort of thing and I would not be chipping it to fix it either. If you want a warranty then you buy new. Probably not what you wanted to hear but it's par for the course when you buy used.
Also, the buyers will call and ask us how to fix things that broke but we have never had anyone ask us to fork over the cost to do it let alone demand it.

Thanks for the quick reply and info. To be clear, HP has very clear guidelines on how to prepare a machine for shipping and it sounds like your outfit would follow these. Not one of these were followed by this broker, the machine's multiple malfunctions were very clearly due to this negligence. I'm assuming this is a different scenario that what you describe.

On the sales contract it stated the machine will pass paper and produce clean copies, it did not - I don't need a warranty, just a printer that is working upon arrival, as the seller promised. I'm assuming you would work with a buyer in this scenario? or maybe you follow best practices and haven't had this come up?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Thanks for the quick reply and info. To be clear, HP has very clear guidelines on how to prepare a machine for shipping and it sounds like your outfit would follow these. Not one of these were followed by this broker, the machine's multiple malfunctions were very clearly due to this negligence. I'm assuming this is a different scenario that what you describe.

On the sales contract it stated the machine will pass paper and produce clean copies, it did not - I don't need a warranty, just a printer that is working upon arrival, as the seller promised. I'm assuming you would work with a buyer in this scenario? or maybe you follow best practices and haven't had this come up?

I understand now. If we did something wrong that caused a problem we would reimburse the customer. We have also paid for shipping damage and dealt with getting reimbursed for the claim on our end, that's not the customers problem to deal with.
Be careful writing bad reviews, I would probably start by sending a certified letter with return receipt. Next step would be having an attorney do the same. Don't use any threats just to the point this happened, this is why, this is what it cost and how you expect to see it remedied.

 

[Stinky Prints]

I understand now. If we did something wrong that caused a problem we would reimburse the customer. We have also paid for shipping damage and dealt with getting reimbursed for the claim on our end, that's not the customers problem to deal with.
Be careful writing bad reviews, I would probably start by sending a certified letter with return receipt. Next step would be having an attorney do the same. Don't use any threats just to the point this happened, this is why, this is what it cost and how you expect to see it remedied.

Agree on gathering the kindling too quickly, but this vendor is pushing me by completely ignoring any request to remedy the situation, first time in 25 years of business I've felt compelled to warn others via negative reviews or to seek legal remedy. I wanted to get this out there for feedback from folks on the other side of it (thank you) and also to learn from others' experiences with similar issues. As you know, once I bring in an attorney, the $2k goes away very fast. Hoping there are folks here have had experience trying to recover from being sold bad goods across state lines. If it were in-state I think it would be more stratigtforward.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I think for $2k, the letter is your best bet. Like you said, $2k will disappear pretty quickly with an attorney, the letter alone will probably be 300 bucks or maybe more. I'd say to not let the principal of it all drive a bad financial decision but I did just that a few months ago. It didn't gain me anything extra but it cost him and that was worth every penny spent in my mind. The guy was being a douche and it burned me up.

 

[premiercolour]

Disclose the seller so others don’t fall in the same hands.

 

[edcooleyar]

It happens buying used with no warranty. That is part of the calculation. Sounds like the broker had nothing to do with packing and shipping. Did you really expect the shipper to research how to decommission and prep the machine for shipping? Did your purchase agreement say the seller agrees to be responsible for following HP guidelines?

Good luck trying to recoup that $2k but it’s doubtful you have any recourse. Fortunately it was only $2k and the machine was salvageable.

We purchased a lightjet years ago with guarantee in writing. The blue laser was out and the first thing the guy says is you probably broke it during install. $7500 added to the install bill. Would have been eaten up by attorneys in no time. Saved plenty on the machine so I sucked it up and repaired it. I was fortunate because they did no shipping preps and found the shipping brackets sliding around the bottom of the machine.

We learned a lesson. Now any used equipment we go see it run, pack it and truck it ourselves.

 

[ham1056]

We purchased a HP Pagewide from a broker (for about $7k) on the east coast and the printer wasn't property decomissioned for shipping, arrived DOA and ultimately required about $2k for HP to fix. Also the machine is unique in that it was manufactured by HP to be only used under contact with Konica Minolta service and supply - this was not disclosed prior to purchase. This means I can only find the 843B ink on ebay at this point.

Just a note we have the HP Pagewide that uses the 843B ink & can be ordered direct from KM. If you guarantee ink purchase they MAY even do an ink contract pricing for you, they may not since machine was not purchased from them. I would not trust Ebay or any 3rd party supplier on these inks. HP does this so then you have no choice but order ink from KM but usually that is assumed machine was purchased from them.

 

[Stinky Prints]

It happens buying used with no warranty. That is part of the calculation. Sounds like the broker had nothing to do with packing and shipping. Did you really expect the shipper to research how to decommission and prep the machine for shipping? Did your purchase agreement say the seller agrees to be responsible for following HP guidelines?

Good luck trying to recoup that $2k but it’s doubtful you have any recourse. Fortunately it was only $2k and the machine was salvageable.

We purchased a lightjet years ago with guarantee in writing. The blue laser was out and the first thing the guy says is you probably broke it during install. $7500 added to the install bill. Would have been eaten up by attorneys in no time. Saved plenty on the machine so I sucked it up and repaired it. I was fortunate because they did no shipping preps and found the shipping brackets sliding around the bottom of the machine.

We learned a lesson. Now any used equipment we go see it run, pack it and truck it ourselves.

Hey Ed - The invoice/sales contract did note the printer would not arrive DOA and that it would paper and produce clean copies upon startup. It would power on, but nothing else. When shipping a printer, not following best practices to ensure the printer shows up per the agreed sales contract is negligent in my book. The printer didn't pass paper or produce copies until I had it repaired, furthermore it was never disclosed that the printer required a non-standard ink product. I've learned a lesson for sure, but will be pursuing this (even if it's not the best use of my time) to do my part to ensure the broker doesn't continue to rip off others in our industry.

 

[Stinky Prints]

I think for $2k, the letter is your best bet. Like you said, $2k will disappear pretty quickly with an attorney, the letter alone will probably be 300 bucks or maybe more. I'd say to not let the principal of it all drive a bad financial decision but I did just that a few months ago. It didn't gain me anything extra but it cost him and that was worth every penny spent in my mind. The guy was being a douche and it burned me up.

Haha, sounds like we might be dealing with the same guy. I'm heading down the path you describe as well.

 

[Stinky Prints]

Disclose the seller so others don’t fall in the same hands.

Hello Premier - The seller is Ryan at Elm City Exports. I've been trying to get the seller to call me back before outing them, but they are 100% ignoring my communication. Avoid at all costs! This is the worst I've been treated in 25 years in the business. I'll update if they make good on this, and I'll further update with a very comprehensive review everywhere possible on the interwebs if they do not. I don't understand how they don't want to be responsive when they will lose more $$ by treating customers poorly vs being responsive. Short sighted. I'll post more as I know more.

 

[edcooleyar]

The next contact should be from your lawyer. If the sales contract says arrive in some kind of working order that would be my next move.

 

[Racegrafix]

Get it fixed, then you have a bill. The sooner the better.

Then, the machine can start paying for itself and not losing money daily.

 

[tonyconner20]

well... I just paid for two machines form these guys before looking them up on BBB. Fingers crossed at this point I guess.

 

[premiercolour]

We sell used and new printers. We tried to bring someone to small claim court and all they had to say is that they don't have the money to pay for it. We won judgment but not able to collect it. I have an option to hire a sheriff to collect for us while customers walking in to pay BUT I have to pay for the sheriff to do that. It takes time and more time to do more including putting lien on it but it costs money to do so. Customer still using the printer to print and didn't bother to make payment.

What would you do?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

We sell used and new printers. We tried to bring someone to small claim court and all they had to say is that they don't have the money to pay for it. We won judgment but not able to collect it. I have an option to hire a sheriff to collect for us while customers walking in to pay BUT I have to pay for the sheriff to do that. It takes time and more time to do more including putting lien on it but it costs money to do so. Customer still using the printer to print and didn't bother to make payment.

What would you do?

How much are we talking here? I will do general work on terms but when we sell anything, it must be paid in full and cleared before leaving. No credit cards either. If we have no idea who they are then it is wire transfer only. Anyone we are established with can pay by company check but it has to clear before they take it. These are on titled trucks too where we could hold the transfer until the payment is cleared but we are not getting in the repo business.

 

[tonyconner20]

Yeah, like I said earlier, I didn’t see these reviews before doing business with them and am finally admitting to being scammed after a month. 6 grand and a month later I’ve been ghosted after this sorry guy tells me a story about his grandmother passing away as an excuse for why he’s been ghosting me. That’s the last communication over a week ago. The printer and laminator is a month late.it’s a total scam. Ryan is a thief.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

This whole thread reminds me of the $25k steak and shake west plains still owes me, or rather stonetree signs outta NC. Asshats. Michelle, if you're reading this, send me my $25k!

Why no lien?