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Does any clear plastic actually block UV???

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by soundhound, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. soundhound

    soundhound Member

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    So I have some panels to make... probably will be flatbed to ACS... and i am wondering if anyone has come up with a rigid clear plastic panel that could simply be sandwiched over the ACS (with edge moldings) to provide long-term outdoor UV resistance. This could be pretty thick if it has good clarity... it would seem that by now there is something (?)
     
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  2. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    It would probably end up being a crud catcher or having mold grow between the 2. A 2:1 automotive clear would probably give you the best UV protection over time.
     
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  3. 2B

    2B Very Active Member

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    What is your definition of "long-term"?

    enamel paint is going to be the longest options

    vehicle clear coat
    or a good cast lamination, the longest I know of / see regularly is done with Oracal 290G. this is going 10 years
     
  4. BIG EASY DOES IT

    BIG EASY DOES IT Very Active Member

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    You want the layers bonded together. You don't want a gap that can catch stuff. UV lam. Print on the backside of UV Plexi.
     
  5. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Resin polymer with inhibitors.
     
  6. soundhound

    soundhound Member

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    Thanks--- i am getting the picture. As far as 2 part auto clearcoats, is there a matte finish option that will give long-term outdoor uv protection? is it better by far than clearshield UV... which adds a few years?
     
  7. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    You can get flattened clear, gloss holds up better. Typically any catalyzed product (auto clear is) will hold up better than single component.
     
  8. Michael-Nola

    Michael-Nola I print things. It is very exciting.

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    I do not say this often, as I am all about helping each other on this forum ... but you are in the WRONG business my friend!
    There are more than several ways to do this correctly, none of which any of us "have come up with".
    If you can't name 10 chemical, laminate, and sheet overlays which are absolute industry standard for UV resistance, then yes, you are in the wrong business.

    And WHAT is going on in this thread with the wrong answers???
    Automotive clear (generally speaking), has NO UV protection whatsoever. Automotive paints are already UV resistant, so their clears are for physical durability and appearance only.
    Requiring a UV filtering clear is specific and special to the print industry. Everyone knows this. For this reason, we all have a very select batch of liquid coats we use over prints, paints, and vinyls.
    PVC and Polycarb laminates are our endurance overlays for a reason. There are only a few water-based, enamel, and UV clears that are designed for UV protection for our purposes.

    And UV Plexi? Oh wow. Another "solution"! Acrylic has seriously long term UV life for one specific reason: it neither absorbs nor deflects any UV rays. So anything you attempt to protect with acrylic is basically the same as protecting it with nothing.

    Sorry for being a negative poster - it really isn't my normal style, but whatever is going on in this thread is wildly abnormal... Good luck ...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  9. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Bullsh*t. Before you start calling other people idiots get your facts straight my friend. Automotive basecoats (aka paint so you dont get confused again) DO NOT have UV protection. All but the cheapest clears DO have uv inhibitors. If they didnt, youd have chalky paint jobs and burnt out color on every car. The reason the cheap clears dont have it? Auction work, which is why I said 2:1. There are many people here who have used auto clears over signs.
     
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  10. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    We have, it lasts longer than vinyl... Significantly.
     
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  11. BIG EASY DOES IT

    BIG EASY DOES IT Very Active Member

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    Uhhhhhhh......... Maybe your should take a look at whats out there sometime.
    A simple google search would prove your knowledge of acrylic is lacking.
    https://framing4yourself.com/shop/p...-sheets/uv-protective-acrylic-standard-sizes/

    This is an acrylic that blocks UV rays from whatever is underneath. UV protection. Print on clear and put it on the backside and then sheet with white and be done with it.
     
  12. BIG EASY DOES IT

    BIG EASY DOES IT Very Active Member

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    So I guess there is one uninformed post on here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  13. Michael-Nola

    Michael-Nola I print things. It is very exciting.

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    Nope. Sorry guys. I'll have to address these individually I guess. Although my desire to argue with you really isn't all that high since I have nothing to gain, and I don't think this group is very receptive to free advice.
    Also please note, I did not call anyone an idiot :)

    Yes "UV protective acrylic" does exist by utilizing NON-acrylic additives to give UV protection properties. There's always a "special product" for special uses, and it is often used as sign grade, however 9 times out of 10 I see printers ordering standard Chemcast sheets thinking it's protecting their prints when it's doing nothing of the sort. Second, you can add all the additives you want to acrylic, but nothing absorbs 100% of UV rays like polycarbonate. For these two reasons, my default answer for acrylic UV protection is "don't do it". But yes, if you do actually order the UV grade sheets you can get protection from it. But sheet for sheet, premium top dollar polycarb is cheaper than sign grade acrylic every day and offers better protection. Palram Palsun sheets have a 10 year warranty against yellowing, deformation, and offer 100% UV filtering. Acrylite's sign grade acrylic only blocks 41% of UV light at 400nm. If your argument is that those two success rates are equal, then I'll stick with selling my products against yours any day.

    You're going to have to get a little more specific "my friend" on what you mean by "use auto clears over signs". Are these painted signs? Then yes, that is absolutely correct, because yes, paint is already designed to be extremely UV resistant. If you mean auto clears over prints, then I'd like to hear some specifics on that since auto clears will eat at most inks. Even waterbased clears are not compatible with many inks and cause lifting and bubbling. To get real, extended UV protection from paint you need to use a 2 component urethane, so if that's what you're using on inked signage and it doesn't eat your ink, then you have a winning combo. However, UV inks are generally considered a low adherence, chemical cure product in the coatings industry while solvent inks are high adherence, evaporative curing products. Either way, 2 stage urethanes are a catalyzing convertible coating which generally re-wet solvent inks or totally eat low adherance UV inks. I personally use 2 main products for spray coating CMYK prints whether solvent or UV ink - a water based product and a low solvent product. Since they offer the best UV protection available and are universally extremely ink friendly, I don't advertise that information online LOL. So can UV protective clear be done? Absolutely, yes, we do it all day. However again, I see lots of simple answers like "just clearcoat it" taken by printers meaning "go pick up a rattlecan of Krylon Clear and call it a pro grade sign with 25 years of UV Protection." Then after it melts their UV inks, THEN they're really confused!

    I also saw a request for a matte 2 component urethane - by definition of paints, urethanes are only glossy. You can get a semi-gloss obviously, but not matte.

    To my original point, I could debate chemical properties, clearcoats, and substrates all day because I make extensive effort learning everything I can about the solutions I sell my customers. This is such a widely produced product type with such widely successful production methods that my original statement still stands: the OP is in the wrong business.

    Oh and just for good measure:
    sO i GuEsS tHeRe Is OnE uNiNfOrMeD pOsT oN hEre

    You people are way too testy. Sorry I hurt everyone's feelings and made you mad.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    You might as well stop, you're wrong again, honestly with everything. UV inks (or any UV curable product) are not chemically cured. Dude, this is why people use them, its very convenient to have workability up until you decide that it's time to cure (by adding UV light), it does not take any chemical to cure them.
    I don't need to get specific with anything, I know what I'm talking about with paint, you are the one that is telling me that I am wrong. 2k clears are urethane and don't eat anything. We spray them over wet rustoleum at auctions, hot over cold and right over every decal on the machine. Urethanes are not only glossy, we get semi gloss, reduced gloss, base coats are matte and are urethanes etc.
    Water based and low solvent offer the best protection? Just stop. They don't even have water based automotive clears yet, its only the basecoats as of now. Krylon isn't going to melt anything either and that is not a urethane clear.
    Keep on with your nonsense, the only one here in the wrong business is you. You are what gives sales reps bad names, running around giving people crap advice.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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