Why are people on this forum always saying something, then backpedaling and denying they said it?
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Does anybody use flat pricing for their vehicle wraps?
- Thread starter WhatsYourSign?
- Start date
Why are people on this forum always saying something, then backpedaling and denying they said it?
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Yeah at first I had that fear too, that competitors would just undercut me, but this has not been an issue at all. Even if we are higher, that won't stop someone from ordering. When a customer sees your prices proudly posted online it sends a message that your not hiding them so the must be good!
Also, with faster quoting, you can speedup your turn-around times.
Do what you can to streamline the whole ordering process and manufacturing process so you can get your turnarounds amazingly fast. If your competitors are 3-5 weeks and you can get stuff done in a week, people will be willing to pay more for that service and will be happier.
WhatsYourSign?
New Member
Backpedaling isn't the issue here, reading comprehension is.
"Coming out behind" would be the jobs where our margin is $x - $100 and "coming out ahead" would be the jobs where we're making $x + $100.
For example, if we're making $1,000 margin on a job, and because we used a flat rate and their job used more material we lose $100 of the margin, we're still making $900 on the job.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
He said come out behind, and come out ahead. I took it to mean, he made LESS profit then he'd like, or make MORE profit then he expected.
equippaint
Active Member
Says who? If someone wants to buy a job, that is their business and noone elses. I cant stand when people get on a high horse. Business 101: loss leaders are a marketing strategy and if someone thoughtfully employs this tactic and it works for them, more power to them.
I know thats not what the op meant but even if they did what is it to you?
Enjoy working for a loss. If you can produce every 3rd or 4th or 5th or 2nd wrap at a loss to get more business, I solute you. This is the slogging sign biz, not a giant box store.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Are you even participating in the same discussion or have you had too much to drink today?
equippaint
Active Member
Ill run my business how I see fit.
Try to keep up.
I have had people 25 years ago try to say, "Some jobs you make money some jobs you lose money, but it works out over the year". BS. I am not working for a loss. Know your numbers, get good at quoting, and be sure to make your needed profits on everything you do. That's why when doing custom work like vehicle wraps you need to quote every job. It is custom work. But as you do more and more quotes, if you know how to run a spread sheet it will get easier and faster over time.
messmedia
New Member
Look, guys, as I am reading this thread, it is almost funny to me, the prices mentioned, which in some posts are like, 10 times more then in my country average, but also the fact that it seems the word "flat" pricing means completely different thing to different users 
But, let me write one , quite possibly, very funny post to you:
If you have a pricing for square feet of printed then laminated wrap media, isn't that flat? It is fairly easy to calculate, unless You have to separately calculate leftovers of media that were not printed due to bad relation between media width and your design width.
Then, You have - hopefully flat - application price. I outsource vehicle wrap application, and, basically, I have 3 prices from partner company, one for flat areas (truck sides for example), one for "easy wrapped" cars, and one for "hard wrapped cars". So, easiness of wrapping depends on amount of "uneven" parts on the vehicle. Popular french cars (Renault megane, for example) usually get higher price, because they usually have lot of embossed lines on them, so more heating of media is needed, and it is much harder to connect printed sides of the vehicle. My customers usually understand perfectly what makes difference.
The rest in pricing is travel expenses, that's all,
So, an example: We charge 25 euros/sqm (square meter is 10.7 square feet) for printed media (orajet 3951, orajet 3981 is 35 euros/sqm). 3951 costs around 5 euros here, and I am geting average 3 euros/sqm of ink expense. WE DO NOT LAMINATE here - it raises prices over the prices we can charge o the customers. And they are changing wraps relatively often. We only offer liquid lamination, 3 euros/sqm.
Application is 5euros/sqm for truck sides, 8 euros for easy wrapps, and 10 euros for hard ones (renault clio, for example). My prices are 3.5, 6, 8, respectively.
So, if a customer wants a Renault clio wrapped, it would cost him 25 + 10 = 35 euros/sqm. It doesn't matter if all vehicle is wrapped, or just sides and back, pricing is same, as my inputs are.
Here is a Clio, 10euro/sqm wrap
https://cdn1.renaultretail.co.uk/as...t-clio/range/renault-clio-mercury-650x330.png
P.S. I would like the prices are a bit higher, but I do need to follow the market, and it is a messy market over here. ALL my collegues are using 3rd party colors, "the cheaper, the better", and profit margins are as low as they can get low. 10 years ago, printing price was 60 in mentioned example, so, more then twice it dropped ... But, we get by, as we do lot of other stuff, window graphics, banners ... ... However, at least in this part of the world, sign making business IS NOT very profitable one.
But, let me write one , quite possibly, very funny post to you:
If you have a pricing for square feet of printed then laminated wrap media, isn't that flat? It is fairly easy to calculate, unless You have to separately calculate leftovers of media that were not printed due to bad relation between media width and your design width.
Then, You have - hopefully flat - application price. I outsource vehicle wrap application, and, basically, I have 3 prices from partner company, one for flat areas (truck sides for example), one for "easy wrapped" cars, and one for "hard wrapped cars". So, easiness of wrapping depends on amount of "uneven" parts on the vehicle. Popular french cars (Renault megane, for example) usually get higher price, because they usually have lot of embossed lines on them, so more heating of media is needed, and it is much harder to connect printed sides of the vehicle. My customers usually understand perfectly what makes difference.
The rest in pricing is travel expenses, that's all,
So, an example: We charge 25 euros/sqm (square meter is 10.7 square feet) for printed media (orajet 3951, orajet 3981 is 35 euros/sqm). 3951 costs around 5 euros here, and I am geting average 3 euros/sqm of ink expense. WE DO NOT LAMINATE here
- it raises prices over the prices we can charge o the customers. And they are changing wraps relatively often. We only offer liquid lamination, 3 euros/sqm.Application is 5euros/sqm for truck sides, 8 euros for easy wrapps, and 10 euros for hard ones (renault clio, for example). My prices are 3.5, 6, 8, respectively.
So, if a customer wants a Renault clio wrapped, it would cost him 25 + 10 = 35 euros/sqm. It doesn't matter if all vehicle is wrapped, or just sides and back, pricing is same, as my inputs are.
Here is a Clio, 10euro/sqm wrap
https://cdn1.renaultretail.co.uk/as...t-clio/range/renault-clio-mercury-650x330.png
P.S. I would like the prices are a bit higher, but I do need to follow the market, and it is a messy market over here. ALL my collegues are using 3rd party colors, "the cheaper, the better", and profit margins are as low as they can get low. 10 years ago, printing price was 60 in mentioned example, so, more then twice it dropped ... But, we get by, as we do lot of other stuff, window graphics, banners ... ... However, at least in this part of the world, sign making business IS NOT very profitable one.
Last edited:
Gino
Premium Subscriber
So, it seems as if most of those wanting a flat rate, really mean they have about 25 different flat rates based on so many vehicle configurations. Now, they'll have about 8 or 10 flat rates based upon the complexity of the design ....... which no one knows, yet. Oh ueah, then you have all various media and combinations your customer might choose. Yep, this flat rate seems wa-a-a-ay more easier than telling a prospective client you need to meet with them and discuss their needs and wants.
You also talk about customer loyalty. There is none. We have some customers for over 40 years mainly because they trust us and know we're doing a good job and stretching their advertsining dollar...... not because we act like some drive thru fast food joint.for a good buck.
Anyway, if this method of shooting from the hip works for you...... do it.. Anyone promoting a substantial business representing a pillar of the community will not hurt from competition who wants an easier method of quoting. Your ability to complete the task is what will save your a$$. Backpedaling on words won't help ya either.
You also talk about customer loyalty. There is none. We have some customers for over 40 years mainly because they trust us and know we're doing a good job and stretching their advertsining dollar...... not because we act like some drive thru fast food joint.for a good buck.
Anyway, if this method of shooting from the hip works for you...... do it.. Anyone promoting a substantial business representing a pillar of the community will not hurt from competition who wants an easier method of quoting. Your ability to complete the task is what will save your a$$. Backpedaling on words won't help ya either.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Both sides are right.. Some customers (mainly older ones) prefer to come in and have their vehicle (or sign) evaluated in person, talk to that person and get a lay of the land and know who they are going to buy from. They need to build the trust with the person first, before leaving a deposit.
The other side, (mainly younger buyers) don't need the in-person interaction to build trust because we grew up on online reviews and credit cards with generous charge back options. Younger buyer doesn't want to waste time driving and seeing someone in person, they prefer e-mail, text, purchasing online and want immediate answers. They also want super friendly and easy customer service.
So when this buyer is calling around asking for prices, let say they talk to three stores. The first two calls they reach an annoyed shop owner who is appalled they would think they could quote something like that over the phone, and sarcastically tells them to bring it in. The third one asks them a few questions, and happily tells them it's X dollars and when would you like to get started? Doesn't really matter if the third shop is MORE EXPENSIVE then what the other two would be, they get the business because it's handled how the customer prefers.
Young people would prefer to buy a wrap or a sign completely online without interaction from another human, and have it instantly appear. Now, this can not be done in the sign industry yet.. but gearing your policies and practices towards this mentality will win these customers over.
Knowing who your customer and how they want to be treated is key here. Both sides of this are right.
The other side, (mainly younger buyers) don't need the in-person interaction to build trust because we grew up on online reviews and credit cards with generous charge back options. Younger buyer doesn't want to waste time driving and seeing someone in person, they prefer e-mail, text, purchasing online and want immediate answers. They also want super friendly and easy customer service.
So when this buyer is calling around asking for prices, let say they talk to three stores. The first two calls they reach an annoyed shop owner who is appalled they would think they could quote something like that over the phone, and sarcastically tells them to bring it in. The third one asks them a few questions, and happily tells them it's X dollars and when would you like to get started? Doesn't really matter if the third shop is MORE EXPENSIVE then what the other two would be, they get the business because it's handled how the customer prefers.
Young people would prefer to buy a wrap or a sign completely online without interaction from another human, and have it instantly appear. Now, this can not be done in the sign industry yet.. but gearing your policies and practices towards this mentality will win these customers over.
Knowing who your customer and how they want to be treated is key here. Both sides of this are right.
Last edited:
JTBoh
I sell signage and signage accessories.
We have set pricing for full wraps on small utility vans (NV2500/small sprinter), large utility vans (2500, etc.), small pickups (ranger), large pickups (150/ram), and quad cabs. Makes it easy and quick to be able to run off quotes for customers on the fly, and in the field.
We pad them over what cost is in case there are issues... but there really aren't. We're still making money and don't have to do 15 calculations to quote a van.
We pad them over what cost is in case there are issues... but there really aren't. We're still making money and don't have to do 15 calculations to quote a van.
That can be a problem, because once you spit out a number, that is what they will expect. Even if you say it doesn't really mean anything.
Perhaps it's better to show previous work and say this is how much this cost...
equippaint
Active Member
Don't spit out a number you have no basis for then. Whats the point of showing a picture to a customer and telling him what something cost when they want the same thing but different design? Then following your logic, what if the price of what you showed them is less than the quote? If you did a full wrap on a sprinter and it was $4000 plus design, why would the next one be any more or less?
You're charging for the custom part of it in the design fee, the rest is repetitive so I personally don't see the point of wasting time putting on some dog and pony show for a wrap.
shoresigns
New Member
If we ever started doing wraps, I would absolutely try flat pricing before anything else. Customers shop around for pricing on wraps more than they do on most other signs, which makes it even more of a pain to do custom quotes for every one.
Also, a lot of you seem to underestimate how much of an advantage it is to be the one company that surprises the customer with a fast response to their inquiry. Customers that don't shop around might be a smaller minority, but you'll get them all. Fast responses will also help you win bids where your price isn't the lowest.
Also, a lot of you seem to underestimate how much of an advantage it is to be the one company that surprises the customer with a fast response to their inquiry. Customers that don't shop around might be a smaller minority, but you'll get them all. Fast responses will also help you win bids where your price isn't the lowest.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Things and viewpoints have really changed in the last few years. I don't think it has anything to do with old vs. young buyers, methods or whatever..... just savvy consumers. Not that the younger ones are more savvy, just more apt to make a hasty decision based on nothing.
If I was getting a quote to do plumbing at my house or a new air conditioning unit, I would do what they call 'shop it around'. Even if I was looking at a new refrigerator or car, I'm gonna shop it around. I'm not gonna take the first price where someone says here ya go..... we can have this delivered later this afternoon.
I've always thought and practiced making decisions based on facts. How do you get the facts if someone just spouts off numbers ?? I'd wanna know what materials are being used, the warranty factor along with various time factors..... who's responsibility is it to do this or that. I can see the flat price for mag signs or something else that's kinda written in stone and doesn't have 20 variables.
Besides, how is just blurting out a number to someone, more attuned to making friends and creating loyalty, than someone discussing your needs personally ??
If I was getting a quote to do plumbing at my house or a new air conditioning unit, I would do what they call 'shop it around'. Even if I was looking at a new refrigerator or car, I'm gonna shop it around. I'm not gonna take the first price where someone says here ya go..... we can have this delivered later this afternoon.
I've always thought and practiced making decisions based on facts. How do you get the facts if someone just spouts off numbers ?? I'd wanna know what materials are being used, the warranty factor along with various time factors..... who's responsibility is it to do this or that. I can see the flat price for mag signs or something else that's kinda written in stone and doesn't have 20 variables.
Besides, how is just blurting out a number to someone, more attuned to making friends and creating loyalty, than someone discussing your needs personally ??
equippaint
Active Member
Shopping around prices can be very time consuming and costly so the savings really need to justify the expenditure. If you cost your business $60/hr and give up an hour a day to doing this with the phone calls, evaluating items etc then it will take a minimum savings of $300 to just break even. So when your shop refrigerator takes a dump, it would make better financial sense to purchase one from the first store that you go to rather than make a day out of it. I'm not advocating to be foolish about purchasing decisions but pick your battles.
From looking on here it seems that just about everyone simply charges by sq ft and I haven't seen any mention about factoring in any variables. If that's the case, why run through the motions over and over again? Doing all of these quotes eats up a ton of time.