Does Speed Kill?

[Notarealsignguy]

While I 100% there is a balance, the litmus test is " is the investment in equipment likely to offset the monthly payment by savings in delays, labor, tech repairs, & consumables?"
Companies who never replace equipment until it absolutely necessary, quickly get themselves in a bind when multiple of their equipment become obsolete and/or start breaking down (printers, computers, software, ect.)
and the investment is more than they're able to handle.

I agree that replacing old machines is a necessity, old junk is unproductive. We replace stuff all of the time. I also understand needing to upgrade when your current equipment is maxed and unable to keep up. I was just honestly curious as to why one would replace a machine that didn't meet either of those criteria. 500k of flatbed work and IIRC 25k sq ft on the machine, that's $20/sqft on the machine that was upgraded. I also don't see how 220k in work pays off a 175k machine, that's 80% profit?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

What is the learning curve on your Vanguard machine.

2 of our employees have never really run any of our printers previously short of loading and unloading. They are both able to maintenance, service, and fully operate the Vanguard in less than a week of hands-on training and regularly operate the machine in full capacity independently.

 

[Andy D]

I agree that replacing old machines is a necessity, old junk is unproductive. We replace stuff all of the time. I also understand needing to upgrade when your current equipment is maxed and unable to keep up. I was just honestly curious as to why one would replace a machine that didn't meet either of those criteria. 500k of flatbed work and IIRC 25k sq ft on the machine, that's $20/sqft on the machine that was upgraded. I also don't see how 220k in work pays off a 175k machine, that's 80% profit?

I'm not referring to you or anyone else here, but that's the difference I notice between large companies and Mom-N-Pop shops,
many large companies are much more interested in "bankable" profits.
For them, having a smaller profit margin is worth it if they can minimize risk and volatility & they get that by having equipment
that can more than keep up with a volume spike rather than waiting until the equipment is 70-80% maxed out & out of warrenty.

 

[Andy D]

Kind of the difference between the guy who sells his truck when it starts having issues and the guy who trades in every two years
because he doesn't want the headache and uncertainty of repairs, he knows what his truck will cost him every month.

 

[player]

While I 100% there is a balance, the litmus test is " is the investment in equipment likely to offset the monthly payment by savings in delays, labor, tech repairs, & consumables?"
Companies who never replace equipment until it absolutely necessary, quickly get themselves in a bind when multiple of their equipment become obsolete and/or start breaking down (printers, computers, software, ect.)
and the investment is more than they're able to handle.

Many sign businesses that are going for low bid wins don't understand the idea that they have to also include the cost of repairs and replacement in their prices. So one day the printer chokes and they have never planned for it's replacement and they are out of business. Vendors will offer financing and leases, but if the sign business is low bid wins then they most likely don't have the profitability to get credit for loans and leases. Or the money to make the monthly payments.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I agree that replacing old machines is a necessity, old junk is unproductive. We replace stuff all of the time. I also understand needing to upgrade when your current equipment is maxed and unable to keep up. I was just honestly curious as to why one would replace a machine that didn't meet either of those criteria. 500k of flatbed work and IIRC 25k sq ft on the machine, that's $20/sqft on the machine that was upgraded. I also don't see how 220k in work pays off a 175k machine, that's 80% profit?

You are skipping over the fact that due to the unreliability of the Scitex we had to outsource or print/mount our prints severely killing our profitability and capabilities. We ultimately decided to end our relationship with Scitex at that point and sought a better solution. As for profitability, we are accounting for the trade-in price of our machine towards the cost of purchase and also some existing contracts that we had going out-of-house that we were able to bring in-house which significantly boosted our bottom line in respects to pay off value. We actually met payoff about 1 month ago and it is more like a 51% profit margin when you remove material/consumable costs plus trade-in, due to the fact that the materials that made the bulk of our sales to this point are low cost higher margin.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Kind of the difference between the guy who sells his truck when it starts having issues and the guy who trades in every two years
because he doesn't want the headache and uncertainty of repairs, he knows what his truck will cost him every month.

On many things like pickups and construction equipment, its often times cheaper buying it brand new, even excluding maintenance costs. The actual cost is the purchase minus the residual. Buying off brand crap because it's initial cost low is also a mistake people make. It actually costs you more because the residual is so bad on it. The opposite may be true for printers and other industrial equipment because the secondary market isn't real hot for it.
Zund brand cutters would seem to make the most sense buying brand new when you look at how expensive they are on the used market.
This feeds my curiosity some though because the machine that was traded was not old, wore out or really utilized. It seems like trading in your 16' flatbed truck because you might get a job with an 18' sign.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

On many things like pickups and construction equipment, its often times cheaper buying it brand new, even excluding maintenance costs. The actual cost is the purchase minus the residual. Buying off brand crap because it's initial cost low is also a mistake people make. It actually costs you more because the residual is so bad on it. The opposite may be true for printers and other industrial equipment because the secondary market isn't real hot for it.
Zund brand cutters would seem to make the most sense buying brand new when you look at how expensive they are on the used market.
This feeds my curiosity some though because the machine that was traded was not old, wore out or really utilized. It seems like trading in your 16' flatbed truck because you might get a job with an 18' sign.

Ok, so if you had a machine that was down weekly or even every other week since brand new, and it takes the manufacturer 22+ months to fix it, would you trust that machine or them with your livelihood?

 

[Andy D]

On many things like pickups and construction equipment, its often times cheaper buying it brand new, even excluding maintenance costs. The actual cost is the purchase minus the residual. Buying off brand crap because it's initial cost low is also a mistake people make. It actually costs you more because the residual is so bad on it. The opposite may be true for printers and other industrial equipment because the secondary market isn't real hot for it.
Zund brand cutters would seem to make the most sense buying brand new when you look at how expensive they are on the used market.
This feeds my curiosity some though because the machine that was traded was not old, wore out or really utilized. It seems like trading in your 16' flatbed truck because you might get a job with an 18' sign.

Keeping on the Truck analogy; you can set a higher and firmer price if the truck is still in warranty and/or working, waiting until it's out of warranty and/or has blown transmission will cost you big $$$.... and if you might
have a date with the head cheerleader, why risk it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Ok, so if you had a machine that was down weekly or even every other week since brand new, and it takes the manufacturer 22+ months to fix it, would you trust that machine or them with your livelihood?

I asked why and got a dance. It was the quality at first. Then the ability. Then we made money with it. Why didn't you just say that you felt it was unreliable? You did say it took awhile to fix but that it was fixed.
I thought you had said in other postings that you didn't use it as much as you thought. The OP asked how pricing works and you chimed in that you bought a 175k machine to compete but you never used your other machine. A couple of weeks ago you were talking about having $300k maxed out on credit cards to cash flow. I just can't wrap my head around it.... so I asked.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Keeping on the Truck analogy; you can set a higher and firmer price if the truck is still in warranty and/or working, waiting until it's out of warranty and/or has blown transmission will cost you big $$$.... and if you might
have a date with the head cheerleader, why risk it.

As ugly as I am, I only have to worry about it breaking down in the parking lot of the strip club and having to call my wife to come pick me up. In the current economy, it is cheaper to buy a new truck and flip it every few years at around 60-70k miles.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I asked why and got a dance. It was the quality at first. Then the ability. Then we made money with it. Why didn't you just say that you felt it was unreliable? You did say it took awhile to fix but that it was fixed.
I thought you had said in other postings that you didn't use it as much as you thought. The OP asked how pricing works and you chimed in that you bought a 175k machine to compete but you never used your other machine. A couple of weeks ago you were talking about having $300k maxed out on credit cards to cash flow. I just can't wrap my head around it.... so I asked.

I gave you no dance. I answered you in my post number 22, with the first reason I listed! The other machine was paid off with the first job we ran on it since we only by equipment base on a need. Most equipment purchases we make are based on future growth but realised on current project needs, unfortunately the Scitex didn't pan out. My response to the OP was to show that competitive machines are more affordable than before.

As for our credit cards, we max them out and pay them off multiple times a month. We pay for everything on our card as if it's cash and never carry a balance, I do the same thing in my personal life and both my wife and I have 800+ credit scores as of a month ago. It's credit manipulation or 'gaming' as many do and quite off topic.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I gave you no dance. I answered you in my post number 22, with the first reason I listed! The other machine was paid off with the first job we ran on it since we only by equipment base on a need. Most equipment purchases we make are based on future growth but realised on current project needs, unfortunately the Scitex didn't pan out. My response to the OP was to show that competitive machines are more affordable than before.

As for our credit cards, we max them out and pay them off multiple times a month. We pay for everything on our card as if it's cash and never carry a balance, I do the same thing in my personal life and both my wife and I have 800+ credit scores as of a month ago. It's credit manipulation or 'gaming' as many do and quite off topic.

You just said it was 760 if I recall right? I haven't used a credit card in years and have over an 800, not a real big deal. Can you explain this credit manipulation? What's the game? Sounds pretty absurd to me.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

You just said it was 760 if I recall right? I haven't used a credit card in years and have over an 800, not a real big deal. Can you explain this credit manipulation? What's the game? Sounds pretty absurd to me.

Yes it was 760 and now an 807. The game is to get credit without effecting your score and maintaining access to more credit if required at the best rates. You don't need to make millions of dollars to have access to money at extremely low rates. Either way there are many individuals much more advanced than I that I follow like the Moneyist, Dave Ramsey, and many more. Credit is just utilitized to maximize your interest generating cash.

 

[Gino]

I don't quite understand 22+ months of sitting dead in the water ?? What took so long as to go another route at 2 months and sue the b@st@ads ?? You could've been way ahead of the game almost 2 years ahead of schedule.

Anyway, this proves my original comment of these threads/posts being emotional outbursts more than fact(s). Sure, you have some facts, but only because of a technical hiccup. Had that hiccup not happened, you'd be back with some other printer, not knowing any better.

However, when and if we are to get a new flatbed, it will be a VanGuard. No one I would trust more than Dave. He's top notch in my book. ​

 

[iPrintStuff]

Back at the OP’s comment, speed may kill. Just today we got in around about 10k sqft in COVID-19 posters, vinyls, floor graphics etc and I can absolutely assure you without the Colorado I’d be heading to an early grave lol

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yes it was 760 and now an 807. The game is to get credit without effecting your score and maintaining access to more credit if required at the best rates. You don't need to make millions of dollars to have access to money at extremely low rates. Either way there are many individuals much more advanced than I that I follow like the Moneyist, Dave Ramsey, and many more. Credit is just utilitized to maximize your interest generating cash.

That is about the most asinine thing that I have ever heard, it sounds straight out of an infomercial to attend their get rich classes. You're following idiocy that is out to sell books or whatever crap they are peddling. What are you talking about that credit is utilized to maximize your interest generating cash? You aren't borrowing money at a lower cost than the bank is paying.
What gets you credit in business is a clean balance sheet, cash in the bank, experience, no judgments and nice tight receivables. On a personal level, banks like to see available credit but not over utilized. When they see the credit report and here are 5 credit cards all showing a high equal to the limit, you look pretty scary, paid off or not. Slow and steady plus solid fundamentals will get you where you need to go.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I'm not referring to you or anyone else here, but that's the difference I notice between large companies and Mom-N-Pop shops,
many large companies are much more interested in "bankable" profits.
For them, having a smaller profit margin is worth it if they can minimize risk and volatility & they get that by having equipment
that can more than keep up with a volume spike rather than waiting until the equipment is 70-80% maxed out & out of warrenty.

Any big company I worked at was all about utilization rates and ROI when it came to machine purchases. Excess capacity would hurt those 2 metrics. 80% utilization was about the optimal point of maximized profits, higher than that and breakdowns started to be a big disruption. They would typically get rid of stuff after fully depreciated, approx 5-8 years. It took an act of god to get something replaced before that.
Even large contractors buy equipment for a large project and dispose of it after it was over. They don't keep excess machinery sitting around hoping another job pops up.

 

[Bly]

Back at the OP’s comment, speed may kill. Just today we got in around about 10k sqft in COVID-19 posters, vinyls, floor graphics etc and I can absolutely assure you without the Colorado I’d be heading to an early grave lol

That's the great thing about having a fast printer.
You can say yes to almost any size job with a stupid deadline.
Not only are big jobs a breeze but even small to medium runs get out the door so much quicker.

 

[Johnny Best]

When the little (compared to the Hugh machines of today) first came out the produced vinyl faster that a sign painter could produce a 4c8 board. Then the Edge by Gerber, then pigment and solvent printer of a larger size to produce sheet and roll full color graphics to make signs at speeds faster than cutting vinyl. Then flatbeds of bigger and bigger sizes. So bigger is faster? Seems to be that’s how it works.