Dog Lover's... can i ask your advice... pleeeease?

[GypsyGraphics]

Dog Lover's... can i ask your advice... pleeeease?

I took Miniature Schnauzer Ellie to the vet because she was acting strange and peeing on the floor (which she never does) even though she was going outside to her usual potty spot a LOT.

vet visit #1 ($150)
Just as we walked into the vet's, she pees. Before mopping it up they take a sample. I ask if i can bring her back later for a sterile sample. They said it wasn't necessary after testing the sample because they could tell she had an infection. I thought that was a little odd, but what do i know. They put her on a broad spectrum antibiotic for two weeks and say i'll see improvement within days.

vet visit #2 ($500)
A few days later she was throwing up. I call the vet, they say stop the RX and bring her back in. They give her an antibiotic injection, take a sterile blood sample and send it off to the lab. I don't hear anything for five days, so i call them... they say there no infection, everything is normal... she'll be fine in a few days.

vet visit #3 ($200)
No change, so back we go. The doc feels her belly, same as before and says he feels a hard mass in her bladder, but needs to do an xray to confirm. Sure enough there's a stone in her bladder. I thought the outer ring was her bladder and the center was the stone... but no... the whole darn thing is one giant stone, taking up 2/3 of her bladder. More like a boulder than a stone, if you ask me.

vet visit #4 ($2,000)
I was suppose to call today and schedule vet visit #4 (surgery)... but i started wondering why this wasn't discovered in the first visit. They felt her stomach in the same way and didn't mention feeling anything. I never liked the idea that the first urine sample that showed infection, came off the floor and the second one taken before the injection came back normal.

So, today when i called, instead of scheduling the surgery, i asked for Ellie's xrays and the notes from each visit.

I hate to think a vet would take advantage of the fact that i love my dog and would whatever is necessary to keep her healthy... but i'm not getting a good feeling about this.

Does this sound like a reasonable number of visits to discover a stone that size? Have any of you had a dog who needed this kind of surgery? If so, do these fees seem reasonable?

See that whole mass in the red ring? that's one stone... i think about the size of a giant marble.


the yellow area is her bladder.


Sorry this is so long, i sure appreciate that you read this far!

 

[iSign]

maybe politely remind them that the problem could have been found in the first visit, and the decision to base their tests on the floor mopping's was one that resulted in time & money lost reaching the correct diagnosis..
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and that the $2000 surgery seems essential at this point, so assuming they will apply the wasted $700 from visits 2 and 3 to the cost of surgery, you will pay the additional $1300 and be spared the additional trauma of seeking a new vet & filing a lawsuit...

 

[skyhigh]

I think that would be an excellent way to handle it, providing you don't have a problem with this same vet doing the surgery. I'd leave out the lawsuit part (at least to begin with), but definately say something about their shoddy work. Wow, you wern't exaggerating about the boulder.


Remember......squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Hope your baby gets better.

 

[Bigdawg]

I agree with Isign... you have every reason to not be happy with them.

 

[Stealth Ryder]

maybe politely remind them that the problem could have been found in the first visit, and the decision to base their tests on the floor mopping's was one that resulted in time & money lost reaching the correct diagnosis..
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and that the $2000 surgery seems essential at this point, so assuming they will apply the wasted $700 from visits 2 and 3 to the cost of surgery, you will pay the additional $1300 and be spared the additional trauma of seeking a new vet & filing a lawsuit...

Good Advise... I hope your pets gets to feeling better soon...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

vet visit #1 ($150)
Just as we walked into the vet's, she pees. Before mopping it up they take a sample. I ask if i can bring her back later for a sterile sample. They said it wasn't necessary after testing the sample because they could tell she had an infection. I thought that was a little odd, but what do i know. They put her on a broad spectrum antibiotic for two weeks and say i'll see improvement within days.

That right there would have turned me off from the vet. Speaking as someone that has been through training and experience in large animal science, you don't take samples like that. Now I don't have DVM after my name, but I'm willing to bet that it was a big no-no even from the standpoint of scientific analysis. Who knows what other contaminates could have been on the floor at that time that would have given false readings. There may or may not have been, but there wouldn't have been any way to rule that out for an analysis for diagnosing the situation.

vet visit #2 ($500)
A few days later she was throwing up. I call the vet, they say stop the RX and bring her back in. They give her an antibiotic injection, take a sterile blood sample and send it off to the lab. I don't hear anything for five days, so i call them... they say there no infection, everything is normal... she'll be fine in a few days.

5 days is a long time to report back considering how quickly results can be had at this time, but it wouldn't be too far fetched. Just depends on the lab that the work with and/or the staff that makes those calls to let the owner know what's going on. I wouldn't like it, but I could easily see that happening. It's just when it combine it with #1 and eventually #3 it makes it even worse.

vet visit #3 ($200)
No change, so back we go. The doc feels her belly, same as before and says he feels a hard mass in her bladder, but needs to do an xray to confirm. Sure enough there's a stone in her bladder. I thought the outer ring was her bladder and the center was the stone... but no... the whole darn thing is one giant stone, taking up 2/3 of her bladder. More like a boulder than a stone, if you ask me.

Stones do "grow" and/or move. Depending on how big they are they can move quite a bit, get stuck somewhere and continue to build up (grow). I'm not saying that's the case here, but I am saying that it is not out of the realm of possibility for it to have been missed.

vet visit #4 ($2,000)
I was suppose to call today and schedule vet visit #4 (surgery)... but i started wondering why this wasn't discovered in the first visit. They felt her stomach in the same way and didn't mention feeling anything. I never liked the idea that the first urine sample that showed infection, came off the floor and the second one taken before the injection came back normal.

The urine sample I think was the one thing that shouldn't have happened. Unless you saw them take the 2nd sampe, I would suspect any and all samples that they take.

As to missing the stone, like I said before, it is possible to have missed it. Visits #2 and #3 are possible to have been at no fault to anyone. Really. Stones move and if their analysis actually showed nothing wrong, based on what they had at the time what else could they have said? Visit #1 concerns me a lot and calls into question the sample taken from Visit #2 and that is really what destroys my ability to lean towards unfortunately things like this happen. Even though it's possible to have missed the stone, the way that they handled the first sample makes me wonder just how good they really are.

As to the surgery, it's pretty well in the bag that it's a needed option for your Ellie. Just make sure you go to someone that you fully trust to perform it. Although I have known some vets that were reallly good with the various operations but post op or regular visits they did truly suck at, so take that into consideration as well.

Also I would hold off on mentioning the lawsuit angle just yet. People in the medical profession (human and/or animal) tend to shut down at the mention of a lawsuit. That might get you even worse results then you want. I wouldn't take it off as an option, but just hold off from blatantly thowing it out there just yet.

Granted having said all that, I don't have DVM after my name, but I do have a degree and experience in animal science. My degree was animal science with an emphasis in horse science. Really the only difference between that degree and pre-vet at MTSU was at the time pre-vet required tougher entry level chem classes (which I accidently took since I didn't look at the upper divisional form like I should have), so I can't speak as a vet, but I do have experience related somewhat to that area.

 

[Billct2]

I think Isign has a good approach....but I wouldn't trust thsi vet and after negoiating the deal I'd be worried they'd cop an attitude. Instead I would do the same thing I would do if it were my own body, get another opinion, which I'm sure will mean surgery but I'd want to review the whole deal with another vet, prefereably someone that has no connection waht so ever to the current vet.

 

[signmeup]

Get a new vet.

$150 to take a sample off the floor(!) and miss-diagnose an infection is a bit much. $500 to cure a non-existent infection is a bit much too. $200 to actually find the problem seems about right.

I'd be suspicious that the X ray was from a different dog with your current vet.

 

[ucmj22]

Our oral antibiotic visit cost $65

Our blood test and antibiotic injection vistit cost $130.

Maybe I've got a cheap ass vet but just based on those two it looks like youre being overcharged, which makes me wonder about their ethics. I would be upset if they tested a contaminated urine sample and put my animal on antibiotics for no reason. Plus, what the hells on their floor?

 

[Rydaddy]

I have 3 dogs, and also like many of you own a business and know how hard it can be to keep everyone happy.

Someone above mentioned a lawsuit? No offense, but this is not grounds for a lawsuit. Unfortunately attorneys are in business to collect money for their time so most would accept payment for filing a lawsuit against Santa Claus if you really pushed it. If this thread was about a child it would be a different story. Human medicine and Veterinary medicine and how they relate to malpractice is like comparing a gerber 4b to an Envision375. Totally different circumstances.

With that said, it's possible you should find another vet. Keep in mind in the end you could have ended up in exactly the same situation. In my eyes the biggest no-no here was using the non-sterile urine for the test. Call and ask to talk to the Vet in charge and calmly tell him your concerns and if they are willing to credit you the original costs. Don't discuss it with the receptionist. You may find out they will be very willing to credit the $ due to their mistake. If they aren't, find another vet but see if you can get a referral from a friend or client. All Vet's offices were not created equal. You will find that the technology they have at their disposal for diagnosing your pet varies greatly from one practice to the next. My vet is not the cheapest in town, but I still go there. Vets do not have the luxury of being paid by these massive almost government-like institutions that we call insurance companies.

 

[GypsyGraphics]

thanks so much everyone... i think i really needed to hear that i wasn't judging this vet too harshly. i don't doubt the current diagnosis, whatever that is taking up most of her bladder has to come out.

i hate that cost is a factor for me, but it is. if i trusted this vet, i'd grin and bare it... but i don't. if the first visit resulted in a $2,000 surgical bill, i wouldn't have hesitated for a moment and eliie would be well by now.

i hate it when don't trust my instincts. i wanted to walk out the door the minute they took the sample off the floor.

the only reason i chose this vet was because when my husky passed away, they were so kind to us... letting our whole family of 5, take one of only two rooms for over an hour because we couldn't bring ourselves to let him go.

i was thinking this morning, about the day we got our husky, many many years ago. i remembered a tiny little vet clinic we stopped on our way home from the husky rescue.... not an impressive looking place by any means, but i remember walking inside and thinking it felt homey. And most of all i remember the way they treated our filthy, scrawny, sickly new family member, who's next stop was the groomers... and fianlly HOME.

anyway, i LOVED that ramshackled little place... it's far away, but the same vet is still in charge, so well worth the drive... little miss ellie will be meeting him tomorrow.

 

[iSign]

for the record, though my writing may be awkward at times... I didn't say to actually sue...

..I said, among other things:

maybe politely remind them that...

...you will pay the additional $1300...

...and be spared the additional trauma of ...filing a lawsuit...

and without wanting to go on in too much detail, knowing gg, like any of you, would add in your own best judgement... I didn't say to veil any legal threat... but still didn't mean to hit them over the head with it either.. certainly not from the get-go...

 

[earplug]

Find another Vet! Competence and Kindness (made us feel good) are not the same thing.

A urine sample can be drawn with a catheter if needed. Most good Vet's these days have equipment to do blood testing in the office. Even if the sent it out they should have had the results the next day. Blood samples MUST be sent by overnight to a lab.

Why was there not a blood test taken on the First visit?

THREE visits to find a stone/mass this large is INCOMPETENCE plane and simple.

Also, and VERY IMPORTANT, not all Vet's are good surgeons even though they are supposedly qualified.

 

[Typestries]

Find a new vet. One that's locally owned, and not by one of the national corporate owned profit machines. And most importantly, good luck with your little one.

And three visits, not incompetence, that's called profit and commission $ to the techs. Corporate vets suck. Care and compassion is practically nonexistent.