Doing my homework for my next printer

[bigben]

I currently own an HP L260 and I'm 85% satisfy with it. We mostly print murals and anything that is interior decor. 95% of our products is not laminated. Since the consumable no longer exist and I'm running low, it's time to do some homework for a new printer. My first contenter is the new HP 700/800 series. I need white ink to create my own ''frosted vinyl''. This will be almost 50% of the prints coming out. The main drawback is the droplet size. I'm starting a new avenue and doing small stickers but the print on my L260 is a bit too grainy for my taste (did not had a customer complaint yet). I did get some prints samples of the new latex, but nothing with lots of colors and details in a small size.

That been said, I'm looking for other options that would have similar capabilities but have a better print quality (colors, but mostly droplet size). I've looked at the Mimaki UCJV series and like the varnish option but don't know if I would really use it. After that, there's the epson S80 series. I've looked at it online only yesterday. Color and quality seems to be on the top of the market with the extra colors. But solvent is the type of ink I would like to avoid and this printer seems to be on the market for quite some times now. I would hate to buy it and they bring a new model 6 months later.

So I would like to have your opinions

 

[balstestrat]

If you want good proper white you are stuck with UCJV and the L700/800. Solvent white just doesn't compete.

 

[bigben]

If you want good proper white you are stuck with UCJV and the L700/800. Solvent white just doesn't compete.

My research came up with this answers also about the white. At least, it narrow down the selection.

 

[Pauly]

do you really need white?
wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the frosted vinyl?

best printer for unlaminated vinyl etc would be the canon colorado. But no white ink. quality is also outstanding. colorado 1630 would be a good starting point.
If you don't really need white ink.

Maybe something in the EFI lineup?
like the EFI pro 16h

What about something from the stratojet lineup like this -https://www.stratojetusa.com/hawk-72
don't know how good it is though.

 

[balstestrat]

Maybe something in the EFI lineup?
like the EFI pro 16h

Really mate? To replace L260

But for real, anyone know the "list price" of the Colorado 1630?
Nevermind, it was public. €36000 so around $40000.

 

[Pauly]

Really mate? To replace L260

But for real, anyone know the "list price" of the Colorado 1630?

Just a suggestion. Not sure what OP wants to spend. But there’s also not much out there with white ink.

Colorado is priced to compete with the HP 700/800 series. I was told the price by our sales rep but had forgotten


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[balstestrat]

Just a suggestion. Not sure what OP wants to spend. But there’s also not much out there with white ink.

Colorado is priced to compete with the HP 700/800 series. I was told the price by our sales rep but had forgotten


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Well I found it from canon "base price of the new machine set at €36,000" so around $40000.
L700 is less than half the price of that so not really competing on that front.
And I know you will pull the speed card out but we all know it's useless if you can't utilize it.
So it's only competitive if they would need two of those printers vs one colorado.

 

[Pauly]

Well I found it from canon "base price of the new machine set at €36,000" so around $40000.
L700 is less than half the price of that so not really competing on that front.
And I know you will pull the speed card out but we all know it's useless if you can't utilize it.
So it's only competitive if they would need two of those printers vs one colorado.

Yeah I’m not sure on the prices of either. But was told it was to compete with the 700/800 series.

Why can’t you utilise the speeds?
I mostly use matte mode. Depending on the stock, we sit between 31-38 sqm.
I’ve ran gloss modes up to 80sqm. Generally sits at 40sqm on SAV stocks.
There’s no other printer that can output the same quality at those speeds at that price point.

Anyway getting OT

not sure what other printer OP can buy that prints white ink.


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[balstestrat]

Why can’t you utilise the speeds?

I mean there's tons and tons of shops out there that maybe on a busy day print total of 1-2 rolls and 95% of time less than that.
Most of the time their expensive equipment just sits unused. They don't necessarily need the speed, they can leave it printing for the night and have their roll ready in the morning.
I like the colorado as well but it just doesn't fit everyone and I'm pretty sure OP is in this category.

 

[Grafix]

I've just taken possession of an HP L700W
I too print a lot of wall murals and the good thing about the L700 is that you can turn the Hardener on and off depending whether you are laminating or not. Tougher inks in the L700 compared to your L260
Have yet to play with the white on ultra clear, but intend to print for the shower glass market

 

[Mike Perth]

Hi BB
We’re 8 months into running an 800W, we’ve had some teething issues but it looks like we’re on the home run now. Each Firmware update sees this printer getting better and better. We went from an old, but good L260 and are now loving the speed, lower heat and 3L ink cartridges of the 800. White on clear as frosting is stunning and we’re doing a fair bit of this work as well as our usual wallpapers which we can produce way quicker....we now have a finishing bottleneck!!
Also the white ink management of heads etc seems pretty good so far, it just takes a while to reload the heads and align them prior to printing white. But once she prints brilliant white you soon forget about the set up time.

 

[balstestrat]

Also the white ink management of heads etc seems pretty good so far, it just takes a while to reload the heads and align them prior to printing white.

Do you really align them every time? Why? I've clocked it few times and shouldn't take more than 4-5minutes to set-up.
By the way, in next firmware there will be new mode for the take-up reel "Free fall" where it keeps no tension on it. Apparently it should be the best for wallpapers. You can change the mode to all the profiles (3 settings).

 

[Mike Perth]

Do you really align them every time? Why? I've clocked it few times and shouldn't take more than 4-5minutes to set-up.
By the way, in next firmware there will be new mode for the take-up reel "Free fall" where it keeps no tension on it. Apparently it should be the best for wallpapers. You can change the mode to all the profiles (3 settings).

Yes, as we’re finding they weren’t aligned after each reloading of the heads and we are getting quality issues with some of the super fine white line work we’re doing.
We’ve also been running the “Feel Fall” for a few months now with good results as we have a Beta version of this new firmware.

 

[balstestrat]

Yes, as we’re finding they weren’t aligned after each reloading of the heads and we are getting quality issues with some of the super fine white line work we’re doing.
We’ve also been running the “Feel Fall” for a few months now with good results as we have a Beta version of this new firmware.

I see.

 

[karst41]

I currently own an HP L260 and I'm 85% satisfy with it. We mostly print murals and anything that is interior decor. 95% of our products is not laminated. Since the consumable no longer exist and I'm running low, it's time to do some homework for a new printer. My first contenter is the new HP 700/800 series. I need white ink to create my own ''frosted vinyl''. This will be almost 50% of the prints coming out. The main drawback is the droplet size. I'm starting a new avenue and doing small stickers but the print on my L260 is a bit too grainy for my taste (did not had a customer complaint yet). I did get some prints samples of the new latex, but nothing with lots of colors and details in a small size.

That been said, I'm looking for other options that would have similar capabilities but have a better print quality (colors, but mostly droplet size). I've looked at the Mimaki UCJV series and like the varnish option but don't know if I would really use it. After that, there's the epson S80 series. I've looked at it online only yesterday. Color and quality seems to be on the top of the market with the extra colors. But solvent is the type of ink I would like to avoid and this printer seems to be on the market for quite some times now. I would hate to buy it and they bring a new model 6 months later.

So I would like to have your opinions

Ben,

After using the 260 series you are most likely going to find design flaws
in the new generation Latex Roll to Roll Printers.

1. The Out feed. You Lose at least 24" media at each job.
The 260 series will reset the media fees at apx.75" and then advance 6"-8"
as you determine, and the ink starts flowing, then will clear the printer with
no Issues.

This is NOT the case with the 500 series.
The Media Loading must clear the printer prior to starting the print. If you do not,
the media will bunch up and crash the carriage. and is a real MESS.
There are guys on here that will tell you to stop using cheap media.
Dont fall for that. 3mIJ 180 cv3 and 3650 will crash the carriage too.

why HP allowed this to go out the door represents HP across the board.

Watch the Youtube videos. Turn down the volume and Watch the media load.

2. the Yellows are extremely weak and they use magenta to beef it up.
Yes I used a comparator. ad caught on to this.

3. Sochastic Difffusuion is no longer a rendering intent and All of your color profiles
could easily be useless.


Go to a HANDS ON DEMO. Call Athens Paper and ask if they have a Demo Unit.
If Not Call Grimco.
If Not, go look at a Mimaki.
They will the you hands on all day.

Take a Thumb drive with your most common colors.
You load and set the printer. and run your profiles.

IF the Printer handles the media like your 260 that is good
if the printer RIPS your color chart and matches correctly then that is good too.

If it waste a ton of media and dont match your colors, you need to move on
and look at another printer.

The HP Latex 560 is a Wastefull POS and pretty much any color that uses 100% yellow
will not hit Olive Greens and Browns.

Ripping the 260 with SoDiff (default) the colors that require 100% yellow typically need to be dialed back and is some cases down to 93%.

Once a machine is in your shop you are stuck with it.
I was going to buy a 700 and upon watching Mikey on Youtube evade the material
outfeed. I stopped watching.

Again you MUST go to a Hands On Demo.
and by Hands On, I am talking about Your Hands!

Good luck

 

[Pauly]

2. the Yellows are extremely weak and they use magenta to beef it up.
Yes I used a comparator. ad caught on to this.

That's how ICC profiles work.. Want more rich yellow.. add magenta.

3. Sochastic Difffusuion is no longer a rendering intent and All of your color profiles
could easily be useless.

All your colour profiles WILL be useless when you buy another printer. Media profiles are not a fit all solution.

 

[bigben]

Thanks all for your help and informations. To answers some questions, almost 50% will be used for white ink. The Canon was a great contender, but the lack of white and the high price did not make the list. I will definitely make some test at my local dealers before making any purchase. As for the yellow, it's the ink cartridge that we use the most. I will keep an eye about this in my tests.