Need Help Drying on take up roll for Vehicle Wraps

[IndependentPrint2019]

I am attempting to find the right solution here at the office. My coworkers (who do not run the machines at all) are convinced that I have to take the take up roll and allow it to open up (unravel) to dry before laminating the next day. They think that the ink will stick to the backing.


The previous operator would run the wrong profiles for the media. I noticed with the correct profile, the inks are not as tacky on the media. I.e. Arlon profile on Arlon Media. Not 3M profile on Arlon Media as was their old way of doing things.

Am I wrong with just taking the take up roll off the machine when done, taping the edge and let it dry? Or should I be unraveling the media overnight? Please help settle this debate.

 

[unclebun]

Solvents really can't get out of tightly rolled vinyl. T evaporate, the solvents need access to air. We unroll prints completely and lay them flat to dry.

 

[equippaint]

It doesn't seem very productive to do that, what do you do with a full roll? The roll isn't air tight, the solvents will evaporate. You may need to adjust your profile or post heat if the print is sticking to the backing though.

 

[unclebun]

It doesn't seem very productive to do that, what do you do with a full roll? The roll isn't air tight, the solvents will evaporate. You may need to adjust your profile or post heat if the print is sticking to the backing though.

We don't print full rolls. We have enough room to dry about 60 ft of 54" vinyl overnight. During the day we can handle about 32' drying while we work.

 

[shoresigns]

There isn't one right answer to this. Anything will dry faster if you unravel it to expose more surface area to the air, like a bath towel crumpled on the floor versus hanging on a rack.

The debate is easy to settle. If you want your prints to dry faster, unravel them. If your rolled prints are getting stuck to the backing paper, don't roll them onto the takeup reel.

There are of course other factors that will affect how fast your prints dry, including the type of ink, ink density, media profiles, heat settings, print speed, and the humidity/temperature of the room.

 

[OPENSignsInc.]

I typically take the prints off the roll and stand them loosely coiled up on their side on a clean piece of coroplast on the floor. They usually stay put but sometimes I have to put a piece of tape at the top to keep it from unraveling and falling over. I usually dont do less than 24 hours dry time and give a few shakes throughout the day to move the air & keep from sticking, especially on really dark prints.

 

[Signed Out]

They will be fine on the take up roll, just let them dry like that overnight and you are good to go. Why would there even be take up reels on almost all solvent printers if they were a bad idea? Like others have said, nothing should be sticking to the backing, if it is then either your profile/heat settings are off or your print room is humid as hell.

 

[eahicks]

There isn't one right answer to this. Anything will dry faster if you unravel it to expose more surface area to the air, like a bath towel crumpled on the floor versus hanging on a rack.

The debate is easy to settle. If you want your prints to dry faster, unravel them. If your rolled prints are getting stuck to the backing paper, don't roll them onto the takeup reel.

There are of course other factors that will affect how fast your prints dry, including the type of ink, ink density, media profiles, heat settings, print speed, and the humidity/temperature of the room.

There IS a right answer....if this is a common problem (meaning you are printing lots of vehicle wraps/full rolls), then it may be wise to invest in a Latex printer. Nice and dry, ready for laminate right off the printer.

 

[shoresigns]

They will be fine on the take up roll, just let them dry like that overnight and you are good to go. Why would there even be take up reels on almost all solvent printers if they were a bad idea? Like others have said, nothing should be sticking to the backing, if it is then either your profile/heat settings are off or your print room is humid as hell.

Prints sticking to the backing while rolled on a takeup reel is not unheard of with solvent printers. Some materials have better ink absorption/adhesion than others, and most solvent printers in my experience are running stock or 2nd party media profiles, both of which often flood the material with more ink than it needs to.

 

[2B]

we made our own drying rack, looks a lot like
https://www.amazon.com/Happybuy-Cap...ocphy=9027425&hvtargid=pla-598996525611&psc=1

once done printing, we place onto a peg. loose wound. This lets the solvents fall "off" since they are heavier than air.
let it outgas until lamination

 

[Bly]

The solvents won't evaporate if tightly rolled.

 

[jfiscus]

Here's your CORRECT answer right here:

Printing roll-to-roll is what your printer is designed to do. If you have over-inked prints that aren't dry (sticking to the next layer) when they are going onto the roller you need to either increase the temps on your dryer or add another additional dryer, AND also evaluate your profiles to lower the amount of ink you're using.

Consider getting in a professional or taking classes to create your own correct profiles on your RIP. We do both here, there's no shame in bringing in an expert to help you learn profiling. Improving your profiles will also lower your ink consumption, so even if a pro costs $500 to come make a few profiles you'll save thousands over the next year in ink costs from lower consumption.

However, rolled up prints DO trap the solvents, as they have no way of escaping. So loosening up the rolls is important for the drying process.

Solvents are heavier than air, so laying prints flat on a table just makes them sit there and attack the vinyl. Standing or hanging prints is a better way to get the solvents off them. If you have a way to move air over the surfaces (your printer's dryer also does this) you'll speed up the drying/curing process.

Look into building a box like shown in this old thread. It seriously helps, especially with rich prints and dark blue prints.
https://signs101.com/threads/out-gassing-solvent-prints.112565/

If you laminate too soon the laminate blocks/traps the solvent gasses and does not allow them to escape through the laminate. Guess where they have to go? Through the vinyl and adhesive.

 

[equippaint]

This is about the craziest bit of logic Ive heard. Solvents are just gonna sit there on top of a print unless you turn it upside down? Rolls of material are air tight and somehow in a vacuum? Lets use up all available shop space, roll out prints upside down, accumulate dirt and dust, roll them back up and laminate them a day or 2 later? Then, spend the next 24 hours trying to figure out why your laminator keeps skewing and why you get so much trash in it. Got it.

 

[ikarasu]

Your supposed to let it sit loosely wound after it's printed. Does that mean let itnhang off a rack?... No.. it just means don't tighten it as tight as you can and tape it shut so it stays tight.

If your prints aren't failing, why change anything? I'm not a fan of solvent because of the offgassing... but it seems to be getting better and better in terms of duration. If your prints sticking to the back of the paper... Slow the printer down so it's over the heater more...turn the ink down so it's not using as much, or buy a $15 fan and throw it infront of the printer so it dries faster.

We print on 50+ materials... When we had a solvent there was one material that would stick to the backing.... In all fairness it wasn't a solvent media, but it worked great for our application. The best result we had was a $15 fan blowing on it.... Once we did that it never stuck again.

 

[gabagoo]

why not just run a floor fan on the graphics before they get rolled up

 

[ProPDF]

I am attempting to find the right solution here at the office. My coworkers (who do not run the machines at all) are convinced that I have to take the take up roll and allow it to open up (unravel) to dry before laminating the next day. They think that the ink will stick to the backing.


The previous operator would run the wrong profiles for the media. I noticed with the correct profile, the inks are not as tacky on the media. I.e. Arlon profile on Arlon Media. Not 3M profile on Arlon Media as was their old way of doing things.

Am I wrong with just taking the take up roll off the machine when done, taping the edge and let it dry? Or should I be unraveling the media overnight? Please help settle this debate.

I am waiting for someone to recommend putting your prints in a clothes dryer or hang them outside on clothes pins if this keeps going. Until then since you got your profile issue corrected it sounds like to the right media you need to make sure your post heater is cranked to the max and buy an additional external heater which will dry the prints instantly if you have concerns past that. I will post a link below for said example. The manufacture of the media plays a role in the recommended dry time cause they have to warranty failures and it's their safe number that's been tossed around and regurgitated endlessly in the industry so much so it's HP's primary sales bullet point for their grainy print machines. There is absolutely no need to wait 24hrs with solvent printing lamination if you bake the print as it comes out. When you start laying prints out and or exposing the print surface to elements even in the cleanest of medical grade shops prior to lamination you risk contamination from debris, dirt, dust, beard hair, bugs ect.

On our Roland and Epson machines our take-up is our laminator sometimes and I have had ZERO failures with indoor or outdoor prints that are exposed to extreme temperatures and chemicals that come straight out the printer, baked quickly and then laminated and pushed out the door. Some orders don't have time for 24hr cowboys.

http://bbcind.com/product/digi-dri-portable-infrared-dryer/

 

[ProPDF]

why not just run a floor fan on the graphics before they get rolled up

and blow debris all over the print?

 

[eahicks]

There IS a right answer....if this is a common problem (meaning you are printing lots of vehicle wraps/full rolls), then it may be wise to invest in a Latex printer. Nice and dry, ready for laminate right off the printer.

LOL..someone disagreed with this. Uh, ok. I mean, I get it if buying a whole new machine just isn't in the budget for you, but nothing I said is untrue.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

and blow debris all over the print?

Not so much if your print area is clean. We use a floor fan all the time and dust never shows under our laminate but we keep our print room relatively dust-free and it's separated from the rest of the production area.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

For drying prints, we just use these and leave the prints standing on end loosely rolled for 24-48 hours. We lay them out flat to air dry for at least a half-hour before rolling them up. We also run a floor fan and sometimes add a half-second print delay for profiles that lay down a lot of ink when feeding onto the take-up reel.