Edge 2-- Vinyl slipping off sprockets

[charissabuskirk]

I can feed the vinyl through the machine without issue. As soon as I start printing, there's stress on the punched part of the vinyl, nearest me, which causes the vinyl to slip off the sprockets and the job to be ruined. At first it would happen about 6' in a run. Then it started happening about 3' in. Also, when this happens, the foil doesn't imprint right and rips. Not sure if this is caused by the vinyl slipping or if it's causing the vinyl issue.

At this point I've also tried changing the foil, still happened.
I'll attempt to put a new roll on vinyl on tomorrow and try again.

Any other suggestions?

C

 

[Fred Weiss]

I can feed the vinyl through the machine without issue. As soon as I start printing, there's stress on the punched part of the vinyl, nearest me, which causes the vinyl to slip off the sprockets and the job to be ruined. At first it would happen about 6' in a run. Then it started happening about 3' in. Also, when this happens, the foil doesn't imprint right and rips. Not sure if this is caused by the vinyl slipping or if it's causing the vinyl issue.

At this point I've also tried changing the foil, still happened.
I'll attempt to put a new roll on vinyl on tomorrow and try again.

Any other suggestions?

C

It could be the foil, the vinyl, the take up motor or clutch for the foil or a lack of maintenance of the Edge.

First thing to do is to clean and lubricate the sliding bail on the Edge. This is the black sprocket wheel that slides up and down when you load the vinyl. If it doesn't move freely it can cause the symptoms you are having. Use alcohol to clean and sewing machine oil applied from a few drops on a paper towel and wiped onto the stainless steel pins that the sprocket slides on. You should also insure that the sprocket feed pins are cleaned of any adhesive residue.

If the problem persists, then you can isolate between foil, vinyl or machine part failure by changing the foil and the vinyl for a different one. Do this one at a time and when the problem disappears then you have found the fault.

 

[charissabuskirk]

It could be the foil, the vinyl, the take up motor or clutch for the foil or a lack of maintenance of the Edge.

First thing to do is to clean and lubricate the sliding bail on the Edge. This is the black sprocket wheel that slides up and down when you load the vinyl. If it doesn't move freely it can cause the symptoms you are having. Use alcohol to clean and sewing machine oil applied from a few drops on a paper towel and wiped onto the stainless steel pins that the sprocket slides on. You should also insure that the sprocket feed pins are cleaned of any adhesive residue.

If the problem persists, then you can isolate between foil, vinyl or machine part failure by changing the foil and the vinyl for a different one. Do this one at a time and when the problem disappears then you have found the fault.

Fred,

Thanks for the suggestions! I did try each one by one, and while none of them eliminated the "stress" on the vinyl during printing, I've YET to have issues with a run. I noticed the top of the foil has a curl to it, could this be the culprit?

I'm anticipating the issue again, as I had a successful morning yesterday with a less then successful afternoon with production.

 

[gabagoo]

Some vinyl suppliers don't cut away the vinyl on the perf and if you get adhesive buildup on the sprocket, it will slip.

 

[charissabuskirk]

Some vinyl suppliers don't cut away the vinyl on the perf and if you get adhesive buildup on the sprocket, it will slip.

I cleaned the sprockets from any buildup yesterday when the issue first began. The majority of the perfs are clean, but occasionally there will be one hanging.

What I find curious is... the vinyl feeds cleaning when not printing. As soon as I go to lay a foil down, the issue begins and it's only on the side nearest me, on the stationary sprocket.

 

[gabagoo]

I cleaned the sprockets from any buildup yesterday when the issue first began. The majority of the perfs are clean, but occasionally there will be one hanging.

What I find curious is... the vinyl feeds cleaning when not printing. As soon as I go to lay a foil down, the issue begins and it's only on the side nearest me, on the stationary sprocket.

Maybe the head is coming down with too much pressure on one side?

 

[Fred Weiss]

I cleaned the sprockets from any buildup yesterday when the issue first began. The majority of the perfs are clean, but occasionally there will be one hanging.

What I find curious is... the vinyl feeds cleaning when not printing. As soon as I go to lay a foil down, the issue begins and it's only on the side nearest me, on the stationary sprocket.

The most common cause of vinyl coming off the sprockets is mechanical binding of the sliding sprocket. There are three stainless steel pins that are barely visible on the sliding sprocket assembly. These should be cleaned with alcohol on a Cue Tip and then wiped with sewing machine oil on a Cue Tip to insure that the sprocket doesn't bind when it slides to compensate for width variations.

Your problem could also be related to what brand and series vinyl you're printing as well as the brand of foil. Please tell us what vinyl and foils you are using.

If your foil is sticking to the vinyl and tearing, you may have a foil takeup motor or clutch that is going bad. Being able to run the vinyl back and forth is not a complete test. The foil must be taken up as it prints. If it isn't, then it may pull the vinyl off the sprockets. How old is your Edge?

 

[charissabuskirk]

The most common cause of vinyl coming off the sprockets is mechanical binding of the sliding sprocket. There are three stainless steel pins that are barely visible on the sliding sprocket assembly. These should be cleaned with alcohol on a Cue Tip and then wiped with sewing machine oil on a Cue Tip to insure that the sprocket doesn't bind when it slides to compensate for width variations.

Your problem could also be related to what brand and series vinyl you're printing as well as the brand of foil. Please tell us what vinyl and foils you are using.

If your foil is sticking to the vinyl and tearing, you may have a foil takeup motor or clutch that is going bad. Being able to run the vinyl back and forth is not a complete test. The foil must be taken up as it prints. If it isn't, then it may pull the vinyl off the sprockets. How old is your Edge?

Thanks again Fred!

The side the issue is occurring on is the stationary sprocket. There's a noticeable pull/stretch (in the forward direction) on the perfs on only the side with the stationary sprocket. The side you sent in the photo, there's no pull in the vinyl.

Now, with that being said, it was working without major issue all morning. The last two runs didn't make it 5' without the foil ripping and the vinyl moving off the sprockets. So, I think the last part of your post is more on target for what I'm experiencing. I'm finding that it's only happening with the white foil and not with the color foil I'm running. Is there a setting or something that I'm missing when printing with opaque white?

 

[Bill Modzel]

Rarely, but occasionally, we have gotten a roll of vinyl that has been punched incorrectly and will literally roll right up the sprockets. I had a roll of PermaGrip last week that had a repetitive bad punch for the first 6'or so of the roll. If you folded it over and lined it up with a good part, a few of the holed were over a half diameter off. Fortunately, that roll settled down right after I called Advantage to get a replacement so I called them back and canceled that.
It wasn't the first time it's happened though.

 

[gabagoo]

The most common cause of vinyl coming off the sprockets is mechanical binding of the sliding sprocket. There are three stainless steel pins that are barely visible on the sliding sprocket assembly. These should be cleaned with alcohol on a Cue Tip and then wiped with sewing machine oil on a Cue Tip to insure that the sprocket doesn't bind when it slides to compensate for width variations.

Your problem could also be related to what brand and series vinyl you're printing as well as the brand of foil. Please tell us what vinyl and foils you are using.

If your foil is sticking to the vinyl and tearing, you may have a foil takeup motor or clutch that is going bad. Being able to run the vinyl back and forth is not a complete test. The foil must be taken up as it prints. If it isn't, then it may pull the vinyl off the sprockets. How old is your Edge?

Great Tip Fred.... I have never done any maintenance in that area, but certainly will now as I have had the odd roll crumple up...always figured the sprocket pattern was the culprit.

 

[Marlene]

what brand of foil and what brand of vinyl?

 

[jfiscus]

I have received a LOT of incorrectly punched rolls over the years. (the dealer will take them back)
I have also had this happen with using settings like reflective vinyl when it is regular vinyl, and the machine applying too much pressure.
Change the vinyl type and foil spec'd in the file and see what happens.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Thanks again Fred!

The side the issue is occurring on is the stationary sprocket. There's a noticeable pull/stretch (in the forward direction) on the perfs on only the side with the stationary sprocket. The side you sent in the photo, there's no pull in the vinyl.

Now, with that being said, it was working without major issue all morning. The last two runs didn't make it 5' without the foil ripping and the vinyl moving off the sprockets. So, I think the last part of your post is more on target for what I'm experiencing. I'm finding that it's only happening with the white foil and not with the color foil I'm running. Is there a setting or something that I'm missing when printing with opaque white?

The side that it happens on is immaterial. If the sliding of the sprocket binds ... either side can jump off track. CLEAN AND LUBRICATE THE PINS.

Again I ask: What brand and series of vinyl? What brand of foils?

Did you try a different vinyl and foil to test the problem?

How old is your Edge?

There is no special setting for the white if you are using Omega to drive your Edge and are using Gerber vinyl and foils. The temperature and other settings are applied automatically from the software.

I also must ask: Since this has happened to you repeatedly, are you still using the same white foil or have you switched to a fresh cartridge?

 

[charissabuskirk]

The side that it happens on is immaterial. If the sliding of the sprocket binds ... either side can jump off track. CLEAN AND LUBRICATE THE PINS.

Again I ask: What brand and series of vinyl? What brand of foils?

Did you try a different vinyl and foil to test the problem?

How old is your Edge?

There is no special setting for the white if you are using Omega to drive your Edge and are using Gerber vinyl and foils. The temperature and other settings are applied automatically from the software.

I also must ask: Since this has happened to you repeatedly, are you still using the same white foil or have you switched to a fresh cartridge?

I have cleaned and lubricated the pins, that was done yesterday. The sprocket that moves, moves fluidly.

Avery 900 and ZeroNine Foils

I loaded a roll of Briteline with a different color foil from what I was using, still happened. See photos, the first is the "pull" on the sprocket closest to the control panel. The second photo is what EVERY piece that the issue occurred in looks like, and this is from the adjustable sprocket side.

Ran the Briteline/Other foil again, it didn't happen, and printed through a 12' run without issue.

We've owned the Edge for little over a year. I cannot tell you off hand exactly how old it is. When purchased, we used a distributor to look it over, and then any maintenance at that point it needed since it sat for years.

I did call Gerber for tech support and they suggested turning the heat setting down through Omega, which I did and it didn't fix it. I'm following up with what their next suggestion would be. I have had no issues up until yesterday with printing long runs.

Since the issue began yesterday, and as I stated in my original post, I've attempted to change rolls of vinyl, and switched out different foil cartridges. Did not fix the issue.

In addition to your questions... in the morning, I can print longer runs without issue. By 12, I can't get through 3' without a problem.

To answer jfiscus, I checked about 20' on a roll and the perf portions match perfectly. Would you suggest checking more? I also adjusted the pressure setting yesterday, directly on the Edge, didn't help but I only tweaked it slightly. I'm printing from Omega with the 220 setting, do you suggest something different?

 

[Fred Weiss]

From your pictures it appears that you aren't loading the vinyl correctly.

Each of the pinfeed sprockets has a section where three pins are grouped together. This is a Gerber patented "alignment" modification. The vinyl has a slot in the punched pattern to accommodate the three pins. The vinyl, when loaded on the Edge, should have the three sprocket pins coming through the slotted holes on each side of the vinyl to be able to properly feed. To do this, the operator usually rotates the sprockets with no vinyl in the Edge so that the three pins are pointing up and are clearly visible. The vinyl is then placed over the three pins so that both sides have the three pins passing through the slotted hole and the the vinyl hold down clamp is latched down.

Are you lining up the sprocket feed as I have stated above?

My photo in Post #7 shows the three Gerber patented "alignment" pins clearly.

 

[Marlene]

Gerber owns the rights to the hole pattern so other brands have to make their own and don't always get them right. that makes it harder to line up the holes and as Fred pointed out, may be your issue or it just may be the holes aren't set up right

 

[eddesign]

edge2

We had same problem a few years ago and the two floating bars on head were not moving freely fixed bars and all was good

 

[charissabuskirk]

From your pictures it appears that you aren't loading the vinyl correctly.

Each of the pinfeed sprockets has a section where three pins are grouped together. This is a Gerber patented "alignment" modification. The vinyl has a slot in the punched pattern to accommodate the three pins. The vinyl, when loaded on the Edge, should have the three sprocket pins coming through the slotted holes on each side of the vinyl to be able to properly feed. To do this, the operator usually rotates the sprockets with no vinyl in the Edge so that the three pins are pointing up and are clearly visible. The vinyl is then placed over the three pins so that both sides have the three pins passing through the slotted hole and the the vinyl hold down clamp is latched down.

Are you lining up the sprocket feed as I have stated above?

My photo in Post #7 shows the three Gerber patented "alignment" pins clearly.

Thanks again Fred! I'm quite sure I'm loading it properly, as I stated in another response, I've been running the machine without issue for the last year. I've also work with other sprocket feed machines beyond the current equipment that I have, for the last 8 years.

 

[charissabuskirk]

We had same problem a few years ago and the two floating bars on head were not moving freely fixed bars and all was good

Thanks eddesign, I cleaned these yesterday to make sure there wasn't any adhesive causing the issue. At the time they moved freely but did have some build up. Unfortunately, I'm still experiencing the problem.

 

[charissabuskirk]

Gerber owns the rights to the hole pattern so other brands have to make their own and don't always get them right. that makes it harder to line up the holes and as Fred pointed out, may be your issue or it just may be the holes aren't set up right

Thanks Marlene! I would agree this could be the problem, but I've experienced my problem with 4 different rolls, one of which is a different brand all together.