EFI H1625 Ink Fading

[ZXNutt]

I am trying to narrow down the cause of my Cyan Ink fading out. I print heavy coverage on adhesive vinyl rolls (3M IJ3510-C) and am having issues with Cyan starvation. For the first 6 inches to a foot, everything looks great, then Cyan will start banding. It will get worse and worse until there is very little cyan being put down. I can pause, purge and continue and it prints perfect again as if nothing had happened. The other 3 colors print great and can print 12-15 feet (by 54") at a time without any issues & without stopping. Cyan has been finicky (but purging would correct the issue). Recently, one of my team printed with low ink (2 weeks ago) and had cyan and black drop out - starting this whole issue.

I have replaced all 3 cyan filters (torpedo and both LCF), purged a river, flushed the head twice. We even ended up replacing the main board. Inks have more than 6 months before they expire. Today, I cleaned the secondary ink tank (1) wanted to see how much ink was in there - it was a little more than half full after pulling the plunger/sensor and 2) wanted to see if there was any sediment in there (There was not).

What else should I check or do?

 

[AGCharlotte]

Have not experienced this issue but it sounds like the ink tank is not refilling properly and it's running out mid-print. Maybe some garbage in the lines between the tank and the bottle? Something is not pushing enough ink to keep up w/ the ink demand. I was thinking possibly it could be something with the sensor in the tank, but unlikely because you said it was half full when you purged it (which is where it should be) and it's refilling when given enough time. (I'd rule out everything post tank... so the white filters/head are probably okay).

 

[ZXNutt]

While troubleshooting this, I started to have cyan and black overflows. Black had done this once or twice over the last 2 years, but started overflowing every few minutes. I replaced the secondary ink tank and sensor with a new one. The ink tank came with 2 new LCF's. Now, it does it less, but still overflows every few purges. Do I need to program the system somehow to adjust the level of the new float? It often reads low on the gui, but has a great stream and no air when purging.

I also ordered one to replace the cyan secondary ink tank, but want to get the black channel straight before I replace the cyan secondary tank & sensor.

 

[AGCharlotte]

I still think your issue lies in the ink cabinet area, not up with the head. Possibly the motor that drives the ink from the bottle to the tank (it's under the C sticker below the torpedo filter). I get the low warnings often when purging too so I agree that you've got no air in the lines to the head. No clue on the sensor itself or how to program it. That's beyond what a tech has taught me.

 

[ZXNutt]

I just wish I knew where. Cyan does not flow out of the front purge valve like black does...The stream is weaker/smaller. I disconnected before the pump and pulled ink through the intake (using a syringe). I then disconnected after the torpedo filter and pulled ink through (to make sure there wasn't any air trapped in the pump). I then purged another river. I'm mulling over the option to fill an ink bottle with flush, put the cyan pickup in that bottle and purge cyan until I get all flush coming out, then re prime with cyan. I know it will waste a lot of ink, but hopefully that will clear any clogs in the line.

 

[AGCharlotte]

Ahh... I didn't see anything earlier saying that the purge was a lighter stream than the other colors. The only "pump" that I'm aware of is the motor I mentioned earlier, so your further explanation makes that even more of a suspect to me.

 

[cstone94]

Sounds like a negative pressure issue. When was the last time you changed all your filters? What is your negative pressure value on the CMYK side and what is it on the White Ink side?

 

[ZXNutt]

For all other filters, it has been 6 months, but we typically only run half days 3-4 days per week.
Cmyk is set at 3.1, white is set at 3.4. Cmyk reads 3.1-3.3 on the small screen above the heads and white reads 3.3-3.4.

 

[ZXNutt]

To add to the confusion or maybe help diagnose, I have noticed that black and cyan are not filling properly. I was purging when paused during a print (out the nozzle, using the silver button) and both cyan and black seemed to run all the way out of ink (Nothing more coming out the purge nozzle). They are both reading empty on the secondary tanks (The bottles are full). I can use one of the red stop buttons, push it, when the machine comes back (2-3 seconds), then the ink will fill up (Cyan and black pumps are filling for a while). The secondary tanks for cyan and black still have the yellow triangle, even though they just filled. What do I have going on here?

 

[cstone94]

To add to the confusion or maybe help diagnose, I have noticed that black and cyan are not filling properly. I was purging when paused during a print (out the nozzle, using the silver button) and both cyan and black seemed to run all the way out of ink (Nothing more coming out the purge nozzle). They are both reading empty on the secondary tanks (The bottles are full). I can use one of the red stop buttons, push it, when the machine comes back (2-3 seconds), then the ink will fill up (Cyan and black pumps are filling for a while). The secondary tanks for cyan and black still have the yellow triangle, even though they just filled. What do I have going on here?

Sounds like the floats in the sub tanks are getting stuck, or you have pumps going out. Are you under ESP? I HIGHLY recommend a service contract.

 

[ZXNutt]

The black sub tank & sensor was just replaced Friday. I was thinking the cyan pump as its outflow is lower than black. I researched further on EFI's community site.
EFI's site says to check the bleeder line filter for clogging and that the bleeder line may need to be replaced. Where might that be?

I do not have an ESP, until the last month, we haven't needed one...I would like access to a service knowledge base as I am very mechanical. In the mean time, I placed a service call as work is backed up, we will see what they say. My local tech just doesn't have any real knowledge and will have to call EFI for everything.

 

[Maxz3241]

When you change the sensor and the tank float is that referring to the Solenoid on top of the secondary tank in the carriage?

 

[ZXNutt]

When you change the sensor and the tank float is that referring to the Solenoid on top of the secondary tank in the carriage?

It is inside the secondary ink tank on the carriage. EFI Sent it as an assembly - the secondary ink tank (silver tank), the sensor (Hangs from the top of the tank, but was pre-assembled), the electrical plug (goes into the center of the sensor), the 2 outlet tubes and 2 last chance filters.

 

[Maxz3241]

any update on this?

 

[ZXNutt]

Not yet, Tech came last week and did some checking but did not find anything out of sorts. Ink track looks fine, vacuum is holding. He has requested a more experienced Tech and then we had a holiday and a hurricane.

 

[ZXNutt]

So the tech was useless and did not end up obtaining a more experienced tech.

EFI had a suggestion that worked. I disconnected the cyan line from the secondary ink tank and removed it from the top of the torpedo filter. I ran the line into a clear plastic bottle inside the ink cabinet and back flushed (Flushed from the head backward to the ink bottles) the line using 3 syringes (35cc's each) of flush. I didn't see anything come out (Blue is too opaque to see much in the bottle I drained into, but the flow is noticeably better. They had also recommended to check/clean the cyan secondary ink tank, but that was one of the first things I did and it was already clean. EFI had a bulletin that recommended a higher vacuum setting (3.4 color and 3.5 white) than I was using, So I went to that. I was using noticeably less ink, but it seemed to run out fairly quickly. I ended up at 3.2 and 3.4 respectively (I was at 3.1 and 3.4 before this fiasco) and seem to be running good and consistent.

My overflow issue was due to hooking up the black and cyan motors backwards (Black pump was hooked to cyan channel and cyan pump was hooked to black channel in the ink compartment). I did that initially as a recommendation to test the pumps, it overflowed quickly after doing that, so I quickly shut down and thought that I had switched them back, only to find 2 weeks later that they were still reversed. I next had an overflow (twice) out of the left white (W1) secondary ink tank. My first reaction was to check the secondary ink tank and sure enough, there was a large snot glob in the bottom of it that had attached itself to the float. Cleaning and removing the glob, then flushing the tank and replacing the filters and all is good again. When testing the Cyan pump, I hooked up a new secondary ink tank float and sensor and turned it right side up versus upside down. The pump kicked right on and shut right off with the position of the sensor, so that ruled out the pump at least for function (it could still be weak, so I will watch it). I printed some 48w x36h boards that were heavy in cyan and cyan kept up so far. It seems to struggle more with light coverage (Like a pale blue or a mint green) and shines great with heavy/dark coverage (like a reflex blue), so we may not have the head electrical values perfect. At any rate, it has been running properly for the most part for a couple of days so far and I am optimistic.