Election sign prices...

[Deaton Design]

Its been election time here, and lots of signs and cards, etc. being made.
Just noticed one of my competitors pricing he put on an internet board.
4’X4’ ( 1SIDE) 1-9 $ 30.00ea 10> $25.00ea

4’X4’ (2SIDES) 1-9 $45.00 10>$ 40.00

4’X8’ (1 side) 1-9 $70.00ea 10> $60.00ea

4’X8’ (2sides) 1-9 $100.00ea 10> $90.00 ea

I dont know if he got much business, but I dont see how he makes any profit at these prices. He does these with vinyl too, just like I do.

 

[tomence]

If screen printed and ordered in large qty's i could see a profit but with cut vinyl it looks like he is just given it away.

 

[johnnysigns]

This guy shouldn't be around for a terribly long time

 

[royster13]

He may not be making a huge profit but he is making more that flipping burgers or delivering pizzas.....And from what I gather, KY is not exactly in the middle of a "boom" right now....

 

[royster13]

Abc

 

[FatCat]

He may not be making a huge profit but he is making more that flipping burgers or delivering pizzas.....And from what I gather, KY is not exactly in the middle of a "boom" right now....

Hmm, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment...
1 4x8 coro, 1-sided he charges $70

*Hourly shop rate = $50, based on rent, utilities, phone, insurance, taxes etc. This is what he must charge to pay his bills. (Pretty low really)

MATERIALS:
Sheet of 4x8 coro $8-10
Vinyl $2-3
Transfer tape $1-2

TIME:
Deal with customer, take order 10-15 minutes
Computer setup of basic text 5-10 minutes
Load vinyl in cutter and cut file - 5 minutes
Weed vinyl - 5-10 minutes
Mask vinyl - 5 minutes
Apply vinyl - 5-10 minutes
Type up or write up invoice, and call customer, take payment - 5-10 minutes

*I'm going to say he'll easily use about 45-60 minutes doing a 1 off 4x8 and all the assoc. time involved.

His shop rate is $50 and he uses approx. 1-hour for this job.
He uses $12-$15 of material

What did he really make when you factor the stress, work and labor involved of running his own business???

 

[royster13]

$104,000.00 a year in overhead?..I think a small operation could do it on 33% to 50% of that amount.....So I say use 18.00 to 25.00 per hour for overhead...And I bet in that part of the country clearing 25.00 to 30.00 per hour is pretty good....

 

[FatCat]

I'm talking about your shop's hourly rate, not overhead which also includes the wage you wish to pay yourself along with all the other regular bills, taxes, insurance, etc.

Most folks can only justify about 5-6 hours of billable time in an 8 hour day. So realistically we're talking about 6 hours a day of billable time x 5 days a week x 50 weeks a year (less holidays, sick time, etc.) which brings it to about $75,000/yr. @ $50/hr.

-AND- realize out of that $75,000 comes the owner's paycheck!

So again, not much in that scenario.

 

[CentralSigns]

$104,000.00 a year in overhead?..I think a small operation could do it on 33% to 50% of that amount.....So I say use 18.00 to 25.00 per hour for overhead...And I bet in that part of the country clearing 25.00 to 30.00 per hour is pretty good....

You can work out of your basement for that price easy. Work your 9-5er and bill yourself out at $18 per hour, its' all fast cash, extra monies. FatCat is talking about having a full shop and the maintenance and utilities on it. Every hour you work out of your basement, is whittling away a larger shops mortar. It's easy to look at the "by the hour stuff" if you have little overhead or make it as a second paycheck. $18 per hour doesn't even cover wear and tear on equipment and maintenance, man. So go ahead and work your ass off for peanuts, when ya go broke or your equipment wears out good luck. eh:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 

[vinylbarry]

I had a local sign shop do 18x24 with stand for $2.00 each come on its not worth it.

 

[CentralSigns]

Bet the local shops gone next time you drive by.

 

[royster13]

I have seen many shops that have far more equipment and space than they need for 80% of the work they do....Because they want to be everything to everyone they have way more overhead than required......If they cut back 50% on space and equipment they could probably still do 80% of the work they have now and with lower overhead be ahead of the game.....All space and equipment you have has to earn it's keep or it is eating away at your bottom line.....

 

[Deaton Design]

This fella is a mechanic, and a pretty good one from what I hear. I got no problem with competition, but these prices are way too low. My shop rate is 65.00 per hour. More than likely he is charging these prices because he has a steady business that provides most of his money. This is side work for him, where it is my living. IF I charged those prices, I would be out of business very quickly.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Mr Deaton...we've got a local guy doing double sided mdo signs INSTALLED on 2 4X4 posts in concrete for $100 some people just have no sense..what can i say. Some of us like to eat, put shoes on our kid's feet, etc etc.

makes me glad i'm not making signs and that there are enough sign companies out there that really want to improve their businesses and see value in hiring me to help them get there. you can not 'compete' with pricing that is simply ridiculously low. you have to make a choice either to sell yourself on superior design, on your ability to generate results with your product, and superior customer service in these instances and stick to a pricing structure that enables you to make a profit that allows you to stay in business for the long haul or you need to sharpen your pencil and make a decision to find a way to get your product out the door as fast as possible at the lowest price as possible. there are customers that will pay you the price you need to deliver them a quality product, that is well designed that generates results for their business. there are also customers that shop on price alone, in my experience those customers are not the customers that i want to build a business servicing...

 

[JR's]

I feel your pain John.

Same here it gets tough competing with people like that.

JR

 

[CentralSigns]

JMan1 from the other thread gots some cheap vinyl from his boss. I can see him lowering the bar to well below $15 a sign for a 4' by 4' one side and $20 for a 4' by 4' 2 sided. I think your screwed with the pricing you gots Deaton. His is way better.

 

[Craig Sjoquist]

man I thought I was under bidded yikes I've done a job before & made no money... but thats doing a job and paying the customer lol

 

[G-Artist]

When I was a child (for most of you, your parents weren't born yet) there was a TV ad
(back when the major cities had a mere 3 channels) where a guy was selling something
(suits or cars) and his spiel was "we lose money on every sale but we make up for it in volume."

In a way, the original post reminds of that huckster. He may only make $12-$20 per sign
but if he does enough of them his total yearly overhead is paid for in a short political season
plus he has made a profit. Any other work done during the rest of the year is pure gravy.
Do the math.

Let's say he has a EZ Taper. Cuts the cheapest vinyl he can buy, weed it, run it through
the taper, re-run it to apply and it's done. 90 day guarantee on all the work. 3 months is
about the life of a campaign. Any calendared vinyl will last that long.

 

[Marlene]

people are doing some pretty crazy stuff to get work. I just lost a long time customer because another company came in $200 less then me on decals. I was using Gill to print them and used their pricing guide. I did the math and what the other company did was to take the net cost and add $50.

 

[Gino]

I kinda agree with G on this.

Although it might appear as lowballing or underselling... if you have the right equipment, right buying power and more than enough business..... there's nothing wrong if you're meeting your deadlines, overhead, costs and still socking away enough money to make everyone happy.

If this guy is indeed cutting vinyl, masking, applying and doing it with hard physical labor, then I agree, he's a nuisance, but like I said... the right combination and those prices aren't great, but they're certainly doable.