Email me a digital copy for our new website.....

[Pat Whatley]

$45 to convert it to .jpg and .png files and a flattened .pdf file and give it to them through email or on a disk.

This is assuming it's just a basic layout someone is trying to use as a logo. I really think if the artwork was good enough to be called a logo it should have been billed as a logo the first time. If somebody wants to use their Helvetica yard sign layout for a logo I'm not holding it hostage for a $350 art charge.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Otherwise, how many people just say... I want my truck lettered ?? You do a mockup and they fall in love with it and THEN.. want the rights to it.

We discus that up front as well. When selling design we point out that if they don't want to pay for a logo and all that comes with it, but decide at a later date they do want to use their sign or vehicle graphics as a logo, there is a fee for doing that. That fee plus the initial amount they paid to have the layout done for their sign or vehicle usual, at best, is about the same price as if they went with a logo, and at worst, could cost them slightly more. Either way, one option involves us going through the standard logo development process, where the design is intended to be fully used for multiple applications and therefore is designed with that in mind... and the other way is us designing something for one application which may or may not work as well with other applications. The important thing is this discussion needs to take place before any work is done.

 

[HulkSmash]

what do i do? should i charge? I'll have time into converting the flexi file.
I only did it as a layout on a vehicle and charged for the vehicle being lettered.. but now they are calling it a logo now and want it for the website.

How should I handle this?

The time you put into this thread you could have done it for them. I don't understand when people ask this question. Did they pay you for the original design? Do you want to grow with your customer? Take 20 seconds and give them the file. In the future find a way to figure this out before you do the design. If they pay you it seems they own it?

 

[Pat Whatley]

The important thing is this discussion needs to take place before any work is done.

It wasn't, so what should she do now?

 

[TyrantDesigner]

What ever you decide for this particular case, you should consider changing the way you sell design (up front) so that this doesn't become a recurring issue in the future. When people want design work done for their sign, vehicle lettering, ect, we give them a couple options: Pay for a design for that one application, or buy a logo and go through the logo design process. If they go with the first option, we own the art, they can return to us every time they want to use the art. Option 2, since the design will be used as a logo, and paid for as a logo, we go through the proper logo design process where at the end they are handed a disk with their logo in all the formats they could possibly need.

Believe it or not, if you set this up right, and distinguish the difference between a logo and a one off design, you can sell a lot of logos, because most people want logos. I honestly believe that many people hire sign makers or printers to do the design work with the hopes that they can get more out of that design and use it as a logo without paying for a logo and going through the proper logo design process.

This. I've been doing this for years now, saved me personally a world of headaches. Now other shops I've worked at don't do this and its always an issue when someone wants the art and it almost always goes as follows:

"I want the art for (insert use here)"

"Ok, we will have to charge you a file transfer fee of (insert amount here) for you to get the files"

"What! I paid for my lettering, it's my art!"

"Did you pay an art fee? Or Logo fee?"

"No, what does that have anything to do with it."

... set your terms up front. It's better to set expectations and over deliver even if it is rediculous terms (cause you can always change them to less afterwords) than to not have any terms and have to impose other ones later.

 

[Joe Diaz]

It wasn't, so what should she do now?

Depends on the customer I guess. If it's someone who will understand that time is money and not be upset with the fact that you really should charge them to do the work needed to create and send the files, then tell them you need to charge them for your time and charge them. If it's someone that is going to get upset because they don't care if it takes time to do what they are asking, AND it's a customer you still want to keep, then you eat it. Learn from it, and change how you approach this in the future. That is what we did. We were tired of this happening over and over again.

I will tell you this though, before we changed our ways, I have had people get upset with something as low as $45.00 to create a certain file type and send it to them. One guy in particular came in the shop to tell us off and call us crooks. It was the only person that I personally had to kick out of the shop. All over $45. ON the other hand, I've had some that were totally cool with it. The guy that came in yelling was more or less the final straw for us. Since we began changing the way we sell designs we have had 0 issues with this. Not one. AND... we upsell more logos. Some folks might not realize that buying a logo first was even an option. It's worked well for us. So I'm just trying to pass on what we have learned.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

It wasn't, so what should she do now?

Be cordial, set expectations that file transfers cost money to cover time spend converting files to non-shop files, educate the customer slightly about the different types of art options they can purchase in advance to avoid such issues in the future, customer relations blah blah blah here, done.

Write up a contract as well to what rights they have with said art (if they own all the rights, if they do is it able to be trademarked ... aka all original, etc, etc, etc.)

 

[D&Tgraphics]

We discus that up front as well. When selling design we point out that if they don't want to pay for a logo and all that comes with it, but decide at a later date they do want to use their sign or vehicle graphics as a logo, there is a fee for doing that. That fee plus the initial amount they paid to have the layout done for their sign or vehicle usual, at best, is about the same price as if they went with a logo, and at worst, could cost them slightly more. Either way, one option involves us going through the standard logo development process, where the design is intended to be fully used for multiple applications and therefore is designed with that in mind... and the other way is us designing something for one application which may or may not work as well with other applications. The important thing is this discussion needs to take place before any work is done.

Joe, This is exactly how we do it here. It seams to work well and people seam to be fine with the process if they are explained everything upfront. About half of the people opt to buy the logo CD at a later date and a lot of them do as soon as something comes up. (newspaper ad, phone book, sponsorship booklet etc).

 

[D&Tgraphics]

If they pay you it seems they own it?

I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. I always tell my customers, when talking design, that they are paying me for my time to create their design, not the actually file itself. The file is my tool. I own that tool. They can purchase it from me if they want and then we go into the whole logo package vs layout discussion. Just do it upfront.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. I always tell my customers, when talking design, that they are paying me for my time to create their design, not the actually file itself. The file is my tool. I own that tool. They can purchase it from me if they want and then we go into the whole logo package vs layout discussion. Just do it upfront.

Further more... if I design something for one application and that client calls back and wants me to carve it into a gold brick and give it to them, does that mean I have to do that for them? Because essentially what they are asking for is something that wasn't originally agreed on, and requires extra cost on my end. The gold brick is an extreme but it wasn't agreed on and it costs us extra to give to them. At what point between a short amount of time to essentially give them what they now think is their "logo", something that is quite valuable, and the gold brick do you draw the line and say pay up. I'll tell you this, some logos have the potential to be worth their weight in gold.

 

[Jillbeans]

This can be such a touchy subject. My proposal says that if they do not purchase the design from me, that they may not use it.
(I never design without a deposit)
Anyway, nowadays when I write up a proposal I let the client know that if they want to buy the artwork that it will be X amount. I do distinguish the difference between a layout and a logo, and I have had a lot of truck lettering turn into logos over the years.
If they are a good customer I will email them a color png and a black and white vector as well as burn them a CD for $75.
I had a jagoff customer who actually laughed when I called him on using the lettering I designed on a billboard (he took a photo of his truck and had some teenager redraw it!) I made him pay $100 for a CD and thankfully now he gets his trucks lettered elsewhere.
Love....Jill

 

[Mike Paul]

what do i do? should i charge? I'll have time into converting the flexi file.
I only did it as a layout on a vehicle and charged for the vehicle being lettered.. but now they are calling it a logo now and want it for the website.

How should I handle this?

If it wasn't properly explained up front your probably better off giving them a low res JPG or PNG file. Some customers don't mind paying but others may get pissed off so for the couple minutes it takes just do it and tell them your doing them a favor and change your ways in the future.

Like others have said, You should always offer your logo package first and explain what it entails.

Mine is three initial concepts with a revision or two if needed. Artwork gets burned to a disk and the customer has all reproduction rights.

If they don't want the package it gets explained that the layout/artwork remains in house and must be purchased if files are needed in the future.

 

[TyrantDesigner]

I'm surprized he paid Jill.

At one point and time, I actually paid a retainer fee for an attorney to send cease and desists when I saw my artwork elsewhere that wasn't paid for. It was worth it a decade ago, paid $500 to have the attorney, and $95 every time I sent a cease and desist .. sadly, I don't have need of it because when I do design work, I make them sign my terms when they put a deposit for work in ... it states that I will charge them my usage fee if they use my design work elsewhere without paying the usage fee for the rights to the work or an exclusive rights fee which it is then free and clear from that point on. It also states how fast I will let them pay without sending it to collections if it was used without authorization. when they ask what I mean, I tell them, set the expectations that they aren't paying for the design work for them to take so it's entirely mine until that time but we can discuss options if they want the art later or want the art right when the job is finished. I sell more logos doing it this way, get less calls for art, and if they do go somewhere else for graphics ... it's 95% chance with the cheapest person there is in town and I don't give two farts after that. Now, I don't really do proofs they can easily shop around, all my conditions on art are on the proof with the image heavily watermarked (if e-mailed) and at low res. Even then it's rare for me to do spec work without at least an art deposit (which they can apply to a full job) so most of my art problems have disappeared. I will occasionally do some freelance bidding, but even then I never do spec work, just give a portfolio page showing what I can do.

Mind you 90% of what I said is invalid if someone pays for all the artwork right out ... I give them a flash drive with the eps and ai files converted to illustrator 8 (if vector based and not 3d based) all raster exports and color variants. They also get a letter stating a "Secession of Intellectual Property" from me if they buy exclusive rights (such as logos, illustrations, etc)

I should also note, I don't make people pay for artwork from a 2 minute layout of a coroplast sign, those people just want a simple 200px jpg and at most, I tell them to bring me a fiver to cover my time hitting export and off it goes. I also don't have the terms on such silly endevors only real design jobs.