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Employee Poaching

MGB_LE

New Member
We have millions of people coming over the border and a massive labor shortage, particularly at the lower end of the job market. It seems silly to me that positions in fast food and hotel maids need to be "legal". There is a shortage of "legal" people wanting to do those jobs so couldn't we eliminate that requirement and let them work?
Well, the picture is larger than just filling that low wage position. What about the people following the process, paying the fees to GET legal so they can work and pay taxes and have the legal rights and responsibilities that other citizens possess. We should not ignore that law/rule breaking that generates the glut of bodies willing to do that work. Like the kiosks in McDonald’s, maybe some positions need to be turned over to automation, since legal people don’t want to perform.
So in your scenario, what happens when people who are here illegally get hurt at work? Oh, they’ll want the full protection of the LAW when they sue their employer. What is they’re harassed or abused. Call the cops? We’ll, technically they’re not supposed to be here, so things get complicated. Illegal immigration is not the answer.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
We have millions of people coming over the border and a massive labor shortage, particularly at the lower end of the job market. It seems silly to me that positions in fast food and hotel maids need to be "legal". There is a shortage of "legal" people wanting to do those jobs so couldn't we eliminate that requirement and let them work?
Give them a labor card and allow them to drive and work. Pay taxes and into social security but no citizenship. You commit a felony you're deported. Stay as long as you want but you can't collect government benefits. The vast majority of them don't want to stay in the USA forever either so what's the big deal? Don't make a gigantic mess out of it either, no sponsors, no bullshit. You have a clean record and want to work, here's your card go find a job. If the Americans are getting beat out of jobs by people that have no skills and don't speak English then maybe there's another problem that needs to be addressed.
 

Ldireprophil

New Member
It’s like the girlfriend or wife who cheats on you, they’ll do it to the next boyfriend or husband they have. Same thing. If the employee is leaving for an extra buck and 5 minutes closer to home, fuck him let him go. If he left to go to a competing shop because you’re not paying him enough, overworking him, treating him like your ‘do boy’, etc…well, that’s on you.
 

JWitkowski

New Member
I read a lot of speculation in the posts on this topic ( including my own). If we want to find the real answers to why an employee is leaving, we must ASK them. We have to ask to raise our understanding, not to condemn, judge or criticise them.

And that can take some practice and skill in order to have the employee feel comfortable enough to be completely honest.

This was perhaps one of the most important lessons I learned many years ago while working in sales. Why a customer chose to make a purchase with another agent or company was important because the lost commission was significant. Most other sales people in this successful company didn't have those answers and just bitched about how fickle the customer was instead.

As a caution, I found out that once your customer is comfortable enough to be perfectly honest, you might hear more than you bargained for! I got some tough lessons from disgruntled customers but knowing that info made me a lot more money.
 
If you want to have good employees you have to be a good employer. Running a company and managing employees is a skill many don't have.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
If the Americans are getting beat out of jobs by people that have no skills and don't speak English then maybe there's another problem that needs to be addressed.
I have to wonder how much is this or how much of it is that people are getting paid not to do work as well (which I would say is a problem that needs to be addressed). Can't forget that. Plus, you have a certain restriction coming in (although, ironically this restriction (which was a topic on here not to long ago) doesn't have any teeth to it (teeth as in, haven't legislated penalties for violations (although they tried with the omnibus bill that seems to be in limbo right now)). Which said same restriction is not there for illegals, I find that strange. Highly sus, but that is just me. I seem to think that I heard that there was a pending strike for air traffic controllers now as well.

Like with so many things, something may actually be a good idea, how it is implemented can take it from a good idea (or great or whatever) and turn it to crap right fast.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
I have to wonder how much is this or how much of it is that people are getting paid not to do work as well (which I would say is a problem that needs to be addressed).
People that are content living off the system are not typically good employees. You can cut disability or welfare or whatever but you'll have the same issue and probably an increase in crime. I think people have lost sight of the fact that you need a workforce of people who actually want to work, learn and advance themselves. The ones that are happier sitting on the couch all day are not a solution.
Part of Britain's problem right now is a lack of immigrant workers. Many of the truck drivers came from eastern Europe but then Brexit came along. Now they want to give them short term work permits to come back and they are saying screw you. Trashing immigrants is great for the politicians but it isn't for the economy.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
People that are content living off the system are not typically good employees. You can cut disability or welfare or whatever but you'll have the same issue and probably an increase in crime.
When one is talking about low wage earners, that is the pool that one is pulling from already. I would not be surprised if illegals were in same way able to get in on the grift as well. And I do believe that there is an increase in crime with more illegals that come in, because it isn't always the most honest and trustworthy people that come through those open borders. Not at all mind you.


I think people have lost sight of the fact that you need a workforce of people who actually want to work, learn and advance themselves. The ones that are happier sitting on the couch all day are not a solution.

Absolutely, even in a commie environment, still have to have people working (although the incentive to work as much as they would have otherwise may be different, unless they are shall we say strongly encourage to work).

What is in bold is, I think, the bigger problem. Education (or the lack of) is the key thing as to why we are also in this pickle that we are in. And this feeds into other issues as well. It isn't just one issue, it's several coming together, but education (or lack thereof) is the biggest thing or atleast the catalyst.


Part of Britain's problem right now is a lack of immigrant workers. Many of the truck drivers came from eastern Europe but then Brexit came along. Now they want to give them short term work permits to come back and they are saying screw you. Trashing immigrants is great for the politicians but it isn't for the economy.
There are immigrants that come through the front door and there are immigrants that come through the back door. One of those tends to get the "trash" talk more statistically speaking.

And I would say that the current admin here isn't all that much on "trashing immigrants" of any type. Liberalism is all about open borders. Just what it is.

Ironically, legal immigrants don't tend to like a huge swath of illegals coming in as well (just look at voting demographic swing that has happened in the harder hit border areas among legal immigrants). Legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are also after those very same jobs, at least initially, and some never go beyond that job market for one reason or another. And with the illegals, it can be even cheaper for employers due to the no frills paperwork/taxes etc attack. Now, some could say that it's just people that are wanting more and more and don't want the competition in the job market. Or it could be that employers want to find a cheaper labor pool to squeeze as much as they can out of them.

Bottom line is that companies too aren't all that loyal to their employees and that feeds into everything and the lower on the pay wage one is, the more of a commodity one is as well. If that is the game that employers want to play, don't be surprised when get some bad apples regardless if they are legal or not.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
wildwest, they are already here, they are already working and have been for decades. Making a simple work permit process with no gigantic hurdles would help a ton. Then they would not be illegal at that point, they would be easy to track like legal residents here are, they would pay into social security which is already in trouble, deportation would be easier and faster for any criminals, background checks could be done before entry, they could be on the books and covered by workmans comp rather than unscrupulous employers sending them to the ER saying they got hurt at home, they would be less hesitant to report crimes/criminals etc etc. It would also reduce the flow of border jumpers because they wouldn't have to do it anymore. There are ways that this can be done. Who do you think works in the residential construction trade, roofing, block, concrete, framing, drywall etc. It's full of these small subs that have a 1 legal guy and a crew that gets paid cash. Be honest with yourself too, if they really wanted to get rid of them all, it would not be very difficult but they dont. It's just another political talking point that they have no plans on doing anything with because of the economic consequences.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
wildwest, they are already here, they are already working and have been for decades. Making a simple work permit process with no gigantic hurdles would help a ton.
I'm fully aware of that. Both sides of my family (and most still are) in Kingsville. Huge illegal population there.

they would be easy to track like legal residents here are, they would pay into social security which is already in trouble, deportation would be easier and faster for any criminals, background checks could be done before entry,

You honestly think government bureaucracy is that efficient? Why do you think SS is in trouble to begin with? It doesn't help that law enforcement is also painted with a certain brush, that tends to diminish at best morale, not to mention the size of the force itself.

they could be on the books and covered by workmans comp rather than unscrupulous employers sending them to the ER saying they got hurt at home, they would be less hesitant to report crimes/criminals etc etc. It would also reduce the flow of border jumpers because they wouldn't have to do it anymore. There are ways that this can be done. Who do you think works in the residential construction trade, roofing, block, concrete, framing, drywall etc. It's full of these small subs that have a 1 legal guy and a crew that gets paid cash. Be honest with yourself too, if they really wanted to get rid of them all, it would not be very difficult but they dont. It's just another political talking point that they have no plans on doing anything with because of the economic consequences.
This is all good in theory, but you have just added to the price tag of those newly legal workers. Why would they go now for the newly legal with an easier work visa, but still have to worry about everything else that goes into that legal worker? They same reasons that they had to hire that illegals still exist. I highly doubt that they would be able to get rid of them all, even if they wanted to (which they don't, illegals are the new slave labor force (which leads to another bit of irony, but I digress)). This issue isn't just as easy as making it easier for a worker's visa.

We aren't talking about the high earning immigrants, we are talking about low income immigrants. The grunts. That is a heavily commodity based demographic (why do you think you mentioned those specific job fields?). The people that are here one day and gone the next for the next grift. In order to keep people when going thru that labor pool, have to do something a little bit more. An easier to get worker's visa just isn't it. And if you think that these workers aren't going to game the system as far as paying taxes (or not paying in this case), yea it's just not going to happen. I knew a guy (not an immigrant) that would go from job to job, hardly staying at one one site for too long to avoid taxes (I have to wonder what happened to him). You have people here that recommend doing bartering, because they think that they don't have to pay taxes on it (and as long as it's under a certain amount they don't, but they go above that based on what they are saying).

I just don't think it's going to be all roses and simple as just making work visas that much easier.
 

ikarasu

Active Member
So you run an ad in the paper looking for someone to do a job, and you're expecting to pay $30 an hour.

You get two equally qualified candidates... But ones wage expectation is $25 an hour because he's been looking for work and desperate, and the others is $30 an hour.

Are you an asshole because you hire the guy who wants $25 an hour?

People can talk all they want. But as a business owner you're in it to make money, and as an employee they're also in it to make money.

If your employee gets a better offer somewhere else and it's a good opportunity for him... Be happy.


Plenty of reasons to move on. Maybe your shop doesn't have advancement opportunities. I bet everyone here who has cried about employees leaving to make more money has done the exact same thing, especially to move up the ladder and be able to start their own business.

I've worked for about 4 companies in my 20 years of working. I'm still in touch with all of them and stop in to chat when I'm nearby... Whether I got let go die to downsizing or left to do something new.

A good employer wants what's best for his employees... Even if that means they move on to better things.

Now if they're a dick and quit at a moment's notice and leave you high and dry, that's another thing. Everyone has a family to take care of, and no matter how loyal or how much you like a company... If you can make life better for your family, who wouldn't?
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I'm fully aware of that. Both sides of my family (and most still are) in Kingsville. Huge illegal population there.



You honestly think government bureaucracy is that efficient? Why do you think SS is in trouble to begin with? It doesn't help that law enforcement is also painted with a certain brush, that tends to diminish at best morale, not to mention the size of the force itself.


This is all good in theory, but you have just added to the price tag of those newly legal workers. Why would they go now for the newly legal with an easier work visa, but still have to worry about everything else that goes into that legal worker? They same reasons that they had to hire that illegals still exist. I highly doubt that they would be able to get rid of them all, even if they wanted to (which they don't, illegals are the new slave labor force (which leads to another bit of irony, but I digress)). This issue isn't just as easy as making it easier for a worker's visa.

We aren't talking about the high earning immigrants, we are talking about low income immigrants. The grunts. That is a heavily commodity based demographic (why do you think you mentioned those specific job fields?). The people that are here one day and gone the next for the next grift. In order to keep people when going thru that labor pool, have to do something a little bit more. An easier to get worker's visa just isn't it. And if you think that these workers aren't going to game the system as far as paying taxes (or not paying in this case), yea it's just not going to happen. I knew a guy (not an immigrant) that would go from job to job, hardly staying at one one site for too long to avoid taxes (I have to wonder what happened to him). You have people here that recommend doing bartering, because they think that they don't have to pay taxes on it (and as long as it's under a certain amount they don't, but they go above that based on what they are saying).

I just don't think it's going to be all roses and simple as just making work visas that much easier.
It would be a lot easier to follow along with your posts if you didn't use parenthesis so much... twice you've done double parenthesis. Just like I told Robert Dingdong... talk normal and it's easier to follow.

My aunt is an English teacher... when she e-mails me it's like reading a letter that came in the mail from the 1900s. Half the time I don't respond to her because I don't have the energy to figure out how to write back in proper English. Then she sends another message a month later saying she didn't hear back. I'm just going to reply "Ma bad hoe, I'm guuud, sup wit u?"
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sounds good what many of you are saying, but how does that all fit into a " NO Compete" clause ?? Is that anything like a prenuptial ?? Like I said, there's no loyalty anywhere. Y'all can pretend all ya want, but like already said, it's all about me and mine. Employees are in that same family, as long as they don't get outta hand. If I'm the one taking all the chances at every turn, then ya play by my rules. I rent your arms, head and legs for 40 hours a week. All I ask for is 40 hours of no lip, no drama and no cell phone usage..... for any frickin reasons. I don't give a sh!t about anything, unless the police call the shop looking for your a$$.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Sounds good what many of you are saying, but how does that all fit into a " NO Compete" clause ?? Is that anything like a prenuptial ?? Like I said, there's no loyalty anywhere. Y'all can pretend all ya want, but like already said, it's all about me and mine. Employees are in that same family, as long as they don't get outta hand. If I'm the one taking all the chances at every turn, then ya play by my rules. I rent your arms, head and legs for 40 hours a week. All I ask for is 40 hours of no lip, no drama and no cell phone usage..... for any frickin reasons. I don't give a sh!t about anything, unless the police call the shop looking for your a$$.
Yes but good smarter employees look at the job as a whole. You've been doing your own thing for a long time and may not relate as much (no offense). I started working for myself only because my employer left Florida in 2009. After working for 3 different companies, for the same money, I hung it up, they sucked to work for. Shit, 1 place I hated so bad I hardly even worked. I was outside sales and sat at home half of the time because it was pointless. They didn't care either and I still quit. Another wanted a non-compete signed so I quit and the third was the same as the first. If I have to get out of bed in the morning then I want to work and work with others that like the hustle. Liking the job is more important than the money to me, within reason of course. I know that I'm not alone with this mindset.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
I'm fully aware of that. Both sides of my family (and most still are) in Kingsville. Huge illegal population there.



You honestly think government bureaucracy is that efficient? Why do you think SS is in trouble to begin with? It doesn't help that law enforcement is also painted with a certain brush, that tends to diminish at best morale, not to mention the size of the force itself.


This is all good in theory, but you have just added to the price tag of those newly legal workers. Why would they go now for the newly legal with an easier work visa, but still have to worry about everything else that goes into that legal worker? They same reasons that they had to hire that illegals still exist. I highly doubt that they would be able to get rid of them all, even if they wanted to (which they don't, illegals are the new slave labor force (which leads to another bit of irony, but I digress)). This issue isn't just as easy as making it easier for a worker's visa.

We aren't talking about the high earning immigrants, we are talking about low income immigrants. The grunts. That is a heavily commodity based demographic (why do you think you mentioned those specific job fields?). The people that are here one day and gone the next for the next grift. In order to keep people when going thru that labor pool, have to do something a little bit more. An easier to get worker's visa just isn't it. And if you think that these workers aren't going to game the system as far as paying taxes (or not paying in this case), yea it's just not going to happen. I knew a guy (not an immigrant) that would go from job to job, hardly staying at one one site for too long to avoid taxes (I have to wonder what happened to him). You have people here that recommend doing bartering, because they think that they don't have to pay taxes on it (and as long as it's under a certain amount they don't, but they go above that based on what they are saying).

I just don't think it's going to be all roses and simple as just making work visas that much easier.
You have too many anecdotal arguments. Run a decent sized business that needs low end labor and then report back what you find and how you feel about it. It's easy to sit back and point out problems, that's the American way. The hard part is finding the solutions, especially when all of the naysayers sit around finding more problems with your ideas rather than getting together to help solve things. Have you ever had anyone tell you that if you don't have a solution then don't point out the problems? Cuz that's a good lesson to learn in life/work.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I think it's now un-American to use the phrase "that's a good idea". You have to pick apart the other person's idea and tell them how stupid they are for not thinking through all the faults.

Any idea that is tried will have flaws... they just need to try something that might have less flaws than what we're doing now.... and years later someone will come up with something better and can improve upon that... that's the whole premise of this country. Now we're just stuck arguing about how no one's idea is perfect and we make no progress.
 

TopFliteGraphics

New Member
What people have realized this last year or so, is that companies aren't that loyal to employees like they used to be. The security that came working for someone else is really just a pipe dream. Think of how many people were let go during the economic stupidity when things started to get rough (and some of those companies had big bonuses for the higher ups) and now all of a sudden want to rehire the people that they let go?

Now, will this trend actually cement into some thing more long term, remains to be seen as most people have the attention span of a gnat.

There have actually been studies as to what employees value and what they tolerate depending on how well those values are handled by the employer. Now that we have other things going on in the pipeline, that's going to add stress to that. What can I say, "The Great Resignation" is on. I see tons of now hiring, bus drivers especially, I never use to know when they needed help, now there are 4 school buses with banners on them spread through the town that I saw just yesterday mentioning that they were hiring.
The shortage of bus drivers, nurses, and many others boils down to Biden's illegal Executive Order forcing an experimental therapeutic onto anyone that works in a company/business/government agency with over 100 employees. The Great Resignation was actually a mass firing event and part of the Plandemic/Scamdemic
 
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