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Employee side business

Billct2

Active Member
I started in the day of hand lettering and almost every painter I knew, including myself, did side jobs. Once people know you make signs you get requests and those lead to some more.
Nothing I did was ever in competition with where I worked. But I did know a shop where the owner wouldn't let the sign painters take their box home, he went through a lot of guys.
Ine of my guys has done some side work, and I have even helped him out getting materials. I guess it depends on the trust you have with employees/employers.
 

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
Sounds like you could add a check box to your proposals for 'tattle tale fee'. I tell you when your employees are jerking you around...
Haha! Luckily I don't work too much in the field anymore. I'll let my field guy know though!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
i am going to ask the question very few of you want to answer:

didn't you learn the business working in someone else's shop & didn't they say the same thing when you went on your own?

Not me. Three weeks after I started, the guy teaching me had a major heart attack and died. I was let go, but told I could hang around if I stayed outta the way. No pay, but I could watch. I hadda learn by watching and no one telling me for the first year or so. I hadda make signs via piecework. I made $20 a week sometimes. Big pay, huh ?? Luckily for me, I was playing in a band at night making about $450 to $640 a week..... CASH.
 

Goatshaver

Shaving goats and eating bushes
All depends, if they are taking scrap material for their own use and try to sell it as competition to your business, I'd say you need to have a talk with them.
 

Stacey K

I like making signs
I started doing this because my husband at the time had a race car and it was too expensive and hard to find people to letter them. I bought a cutter and LXI. I learned from the internet and from all of you! My parents and sister have always been in business so it made sense for me to do so also.
 

netsol

Premium Subscriber
Most folks yes, very few that are actually in the family from what I see around here, but I get to claim 4th generation, and my great grandad was just slinging paint on billboards by the railroad...
4th generation?
that would have to be before the invention of the brush!
 

Humble PM

Mostly tolerates architects
I can see a couple of angles on this.
You're in a small community, one or five local competitors, doing the kind of work where you could set up shop with below $10k of kit.
You've got a facility like Victor's, or you pull permits, get drawings, have bucket trucks; the sort of thing that has you in over $100k for start up, and requires considerable knowledge.

In the first instance, you're taking on hired help for whom the cost of entry to be a competitor is relatively low, and a bright person could possibly replicate/replace you in a relatively short time. Many of your previous competitors may have come in, low balled, then folded, which implies that you have something in your hand, other than being cheap. This also happens when you're based in a small or large city - there will always be a new comer snipping for your customers. If you're good, then word of mouth, and repeat custom are in your favour, and many busy people would rather order from someone they know will deliver the product they want.
Those who only want the cheapest are the customers you least want.

In the second instance, the barrier to entry is much higher, both financially, and in terms of knowledge - technical, social, practical, and perhaps most importantly business. You're B2B, or streamlined, optimised B2C, who has the logistics in place to ensure the job gets done. You've developed the skills, bought the equipment, done you're time and porbably have a wardrobe full of The T-shirt. You're who the customer goes to to either know the job'll get done properly, and pay a premium, or who presents in such a way that can offer a cost effective solution that will get delivered (nod to Victor's model)

1st angle, you've got someone bright who can see where they could fill a gap in the market - approaching your customers, being cheaper than you from their garage, offering things that you don't do. If they are decent, they'll ask/talk with you. Or your customers may talk with you. This is the tricky place. If they're decent and open, then set ground rules - no approaching your clients, no taking "stuff" from the work place. If they're not, then the boot.

Angle 2, (though not Victor), assuming you're not paying them top dollar, help them develope. Treat them like an apprentice, or an assistant, help them develope. They can not make the leap to be you and your outfit. Let them know that while they're with you, and you're paying their salary, that you own their 40 hours, and that "stuff" is your property and needs to be asked for. As they develope, they may want to go part time. Assuming they're decent, then it's on your schedule, and if you're supportive, they're more likely to not chuck a sickie and leave you in the lurch. They continue to be a good employee. If you see that they're obviously allowing their new activities to impact your 40 hours of their time, then you as the elder business person needs to initiate the conversation.

When an ex-assistant/apprentice leaves you on good terms, they are unlikely to immediately have a fully booked calendar, so now you have a sub you have trained, and know can step in for you, or you can call in for a few days. You have someone to feed the overflow jobs, or the ones that your overhead can't sustain.
This can lead to a win-win, and as they grow, as long as both parties behave decently, no-one loses, unless you weren't as good as you thought you were. In which case, they might give you a job (given that you have the skills, knowledge, etc), or chuck you the customers that they don't want.

A side hustle can show many things.
One may be that their employer isn't paying enough for them to survive. That's on you. If you are paying them enough to survive, then have a conversation as to how the side hustle can be run without impacting your business.
It may show ambition to be their own boss. If that is the case, then how you act is dependent on how precarious your own circumstances are.

In the 80's, 90's, early 2000's, commercial photogaphers would pay their assitants enough to live reasonably. They'd lend them kit and use of the studio out of hours, pay their (assistant discounted) lab bills, and help them grow. The understanding was there from the get go, that they (the assistant) would always be at work when they were expected to be, that they would be reliable, hard working decent and honest. In return, they got to learn their trade.

(my background is photographic, these days, I'm a printer mostly working with photography).
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I started doing this because my husband at the time had a race car and it was too expensive and hard to find people to letter them. I bought a cutter and LXI. I learned from the internet and from all of you! My parents and sister have always been in business so it made sense for me to do so also.
And your bf helped me weld. He got me over a few hurdles I was having
 

mfatty500

New Member
I started doing this because my husband at the time had a race car and it was too expensive and hard to find people to letter them. I bought a cutter and LXI. I learned from the internet and from all of you! My parents and sister have always been in business so it made sense for me to do so also.
Sure, ya took all the big bucks from the racecar owner & then kicked him to the curb, ya damned bully! :D
 

Aardvark Printing

New Member
What's your thoughts on an employee in a small shop buying their own equipment to run a side sign business from home?
Stuff like this is why it's a really good idea to have an employee read and sign an employee handbook/agreement to lay out your expectations.
That way if the cross you you have recourse.
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
Where did the op go? I still want to know if they are the employee, or the employer...
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
I moonlight, but it's graphic design. Design is my background, but only a small part of my job as a PM. So I moonlight with projects for a couple of customers... But just things that are more involved with design time that I can afford at work, and things we don't produce, like brochures and print ads. My boss knows, and he's fine with it.
I have a plotter at home, but so far I haven't used it to sell anything. And if I did, it would be too piddly for the business we do at my job.
 

ikarasu

Active Member
Let me ask you - Whats your fear if they moon light?

That they'll become a competitor, that they'll leave faster, and you'll have to hire someone else?

Employees owe employers nothing - Think about it... Whens the last time you gave your employee a $5,10 raise? The only way to get ahead is to start at a new company.... or start your own. People dont work at shops for 10 years anymore... So you have to accept your employee will leave... why not keep them as happy as you can and keep them around longer, if its not hurting you?

I started as an First aid attendant - The job I was a "Lead hand" at went under, and this was the first job I found. I was just a casual worker / OFA attendant... And then an opening in the digital department opened up, so I went up there. The graphics artist who operated the machines taught me everything wrong... Vinyl over the tension bar instead of under it on the laminator... only using 1 condition on the graphtec... Printing 1 up on our flatbed because they didnt know how to do more... I pretty much did a ton of research..a lot on here, a lot on Youtube, re-trained myself and optomized the digital department. I enjoyed it...and I like technology, so when I bought a new house, I padded my mortgage a bit and bought a Latex printer, graphtec plotter, and laminator. I learned how to do perf cuts like a pro (no one at my job even knew graphtec could cut all the way through...) I learned how to optomize workflow and do things better, and faster than at work... because I had my own stuff and cared more. I learned color management, profiling (Amateur profiling), learned how to automate onyx's cut flow to auto do kiss / perf cut based on conditions... etc. Everything I learned to do efficiently at home..transferred over to work. So its not only benefited me, my employer also benefits from me having a machine.

At first the owner was a bit weary when he found out I had a printer - I kept it quiet until Our machine crapped out, and we were outsourcing to another company... and I took him aside and told him I had one, and would print for him at just the cost of ink... something stupid like 50 cents a sqft. I wasnt looking to make money, just help out - For the next month...everything was printed / laminated / cut at my home... I worked from home while we waited for a new printer to arrive, and I only came in to drop off rolls of vinyl. It was awesome! But I think thats what showed him I wasn't looking to be a competitor, and me having a machine benefits him.

I was told the last 6 operators bought their own printers and started their own company - A few are still around, a few went out of business. We still send work / overflow to the few that are still around, and maintain a good relationship with them - They send us work they cant do... like 500 flatbed signs, or custom cut aluminum - So its mutually beneficial. Why burn a bridge when it can help you?

The owner was smart... or dumb, however you look at it. I went from digital operator, to manager - I manage all of production, a warehouse of 10-15ish people. I took what I knew...cross trained 3-4 people per machine - optimized almost everything. I learned to use the CNC... then crosstrained the new guy and another guy on that - We no longer have 1 person per machine, where we get screwed if theyre sick for a few days - I'm a backup for every machine / every process. I do all the purchasing, and I deal directly with all the customers - I setup the work flow, product specs, and deal with one of our biggest label customers who spend 200k a year with us...On a material that we get 10x proffit on. We spend 1K per roll combo, and make 10K on it. I have all their artwork files and a really good relationship with them... I could steal them tomorrow, make 10X what I do working for my company... I dont know if that thoughts ever crossed his mind... but I keep getting more and more responsibilities having to do with dealing with customers, so I dont think theyre worried too much about it.


IMO, If you're worried about some guy with a printer in his garage being competition, your business is in more trouble and you have more things to worry about and figure out. Theres hundreds of shops here that are a guy in their basement - We dont worry about them at all... let them have the craigslist, or penny pincher lookie loos who waste hours of time to buy 1 $20 sign.


Now if you have an employee with a printer whos also printing stuff for your customers... thats a bit different, and those guys should be fired / let go. Ive had people find out I have a printer and ask me to quote some stuff - I've outright turned them down, even went so far as to let the owner know they were shopping around once or twice. To me...thats just common decency, And I imagine to most others who run a side hustle are the same - But there will always be dicks who try to do everything they can to get ahead.


TLDR; It's common and if it bugs you that much just because they have a printer and theyre printing stuff for online, or stickers for friends, or theyre doing something like "height charts" on craigslist, tapping into a market you never have.. dont be butthurt because they're doing it on their own time instead of making you even more money - you hired them to be a printer operator, not a sales guy. And if you really think 1 guy in his garage is going to take food off your table...you're in the wrong business. Have a talk with your employee, let him know what you expect / what youre ok with - You shouldnt have an issue with him hitting the pavement on saturdays asking some shops if they want their windows frosted, or need some labels printed - If it doesnt hurt your business, why care? Let them know the second they cross the line theyre out, 9/10 times most people wont poach your customers.



And some people dont do it for the cash. I've been doing my own side stuff for 4 years. I've had a Latex 110 - latex 560. epson S40. And now a Epson Resin - I spent 12k, 10k, 10k and now 25K - So 60K JUST on printers because I wanted to play with a new printer. I went from an FC8600 to an FC9000 with a take up reel...which after 2 months of using I brought the owner over, showed him how much time it'd save the company if they had one...and we bought one the next day.. I like to play with new toys. IF I had the space I'd have a summa cutter... My eyes currently on a colorado 1650... I dont know if I'll ever like new technology enough to drop 100k on a single purchase for my side hustle... but who knows! I may quit my job one day - Right now I'm at about 7K profit, not counting labor.. just material costs / ink cost / overhead cost, working 2 hours a night, 3 days a week, per month. I make more on my side gig than I do at my "Real" job... but I havent thought about quitting once. I like my job...and my side job, I see it as getting ahead - trading some time now, so when I'm 50 and my house is paid off, I can relax VS work until I'm in my 65/70's.. although I'm sure I'll still be working my side gig when I am!


Then there are those that do do it for the cash - and some need it. Inflation is at a published 8.2%. Unpublished theyre saying it's in the 15-16% - is everyone here giving their employees a 10% raise this year? Didn't think so... so especially right now, everyone is taking a pretty hefty pay cut. My mortgage went from $800 a month to $1700 a month... food costs have doubled , gas is through the roof... hell, I took my kid to see a movie the other day - we dropped $100ish just for me, the wife and my kid to see 1 movie and get 1 large popcorn and 2 drinks. then $75 to eat out at a cheap shitty restaurant right after. COL is through the roof right now... 5% of US employees have 2 jobs. That's an old statistic, its probably way higher now - Would you want your employee tiring himself out working 40 hours extra a week bagging groceries... Or would you rather him on etsy selling stickers or something?
 
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