Encapsulating Hot Lamination - Problems

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

I have encapsulate laminated many many times but today I had strange waves in the lamination. I am not sure what went wrong. I used the right temperature and pressure(same as previously used that was successful), but it came out awful.
Does anyone have any tips and/or know what I did wrong?
TIA

 

[greysquirrel]

so many variables, what printer? media? what film laminate? looks like graphic is curling up...if so to much brake on top roll of lamination film. If its all warped( I cannot tell) speed / heat / nip issue

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

so many variables, what printer? media? what film laminate? looks like graphic is curling up...if so to much brake on top roll of lamination film. If its all warped( I cannot tell) speed / heat / nip issue

HP Latex 360, SIHL 3689, Remington 5 Mil Gloss Low Temp Laminating Film. The humidity has shot up and temp has gone way down in the last week, if that matters.

​

 

[JBurton]

I've never done an encapsulation before, sounds like a terrific PITA, gotta ask what the purpose is? It can't be cheaper than just running a banner, considering the excess labor to laminate it, can it?
I'm gonna say humidity in the paper stock, or just humidity in general. Is this in a controlled environment?

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

I've never done an encapsulation before, sounds like a terrific PITA, gotta ask what the purpose is? It can't be cheaper than just running a banner, considering the excess labor to laminate it, can it?
I'm gonna say humidity in the paper stock, or just humidity in general. Is this in a controlled environment?

A Vietnam Silent Service vet came in asking me to reproduce his old encapsulated posters that were all yellowed and beat up. I tried to take him down a different path but he wanted them as close to as they were as possible. He even requested they be hand painted(as his were. That was an immediate no).
My father is a Vietnam Navy vet, too, so, I want to help him out because my father would want me to. Thus is my conclusion after self-psychoanalyzing my own behavior.

It is kinda controlled.
The docking bay doors and shipping door are left open a lot.

 

[MarkSnelling]

what laminator do you have?

do you have pull rollers on your laminator with a chill bar? It appears that the laminate isn't being pulled tight after the hot lam is adhered to the print...this can cause the laminate to warp as it cools back down. If you don't have pull rollers, then have someone pull the laminate from the back side so it is flat while it cools.

If you do have pull rollers, then you should have a chill bar and make sure your prints are tight to the chill bar to take the heat out as quickly as possible.

you are welcome to call or email me if this sort of makes sense but you need any clarification

 

[JBurton]

I tried to take him down a different path but he wanted them as close to as they were as possible.

Customer induced issues, very familiar. I too have a soft spot for vets, and would likely bang my head against something similar. Have you presented it to him yet? His original posters may have been just as lumpy, therefore perfect in his eyes.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

what laminator do you have?

do you have pull rollers on your laminator with a chill bar? It appears that the laminate isn't being pulled tight after the hot lam is adhered to the print...this can cause the laminate to warp as it cools back down. If you don't have pull rollers, then have someone pull the laminate from the back side so it is flat while it cools.

If you do have pull rollers, then you should have a chill bar and make sure your prints are tight to the chill bar to take the heat out as quickly as possible.

you are welcome to call or email me if this sort of makes sense but you need any clarification

I have the pull/chill bar, but I do not have the attachment that keeps the chill bar cool. However, I was under the impression that was only for long encapsulating runs, which I never do. This was three 3x4 foot posters. Could lowering the temperature help?

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

Customer induced issues, very familiar. I too have a soft spot for vets, and would likely bang my head against something similar. Have you presented it to him yet? His original posters may have been just as lumpy, therefore perfect in his eyes.

Not wavy at all. That would make things easy. That's now how this works.

 

[JBurton]

Ugh, he looks wholly unimpressed by your first attempt! Also looks like a much stiffer laminate than something for vinyl?
As far as hand lettering goes, you could always print, then paint over the lettering, add the base lines and defects you see there...

 

[MarkSnelling]

I have the pull/chill bar, but I do not have the attachment that keeps the chill bar cool. However, I was under the impression that was only for long encapsulating runs, which I never do. This was three 3x4 foot posters. Could lowering the temperature help?

You are going down the right path. Either run the same temp but faster or reduce the temp and run the same temperature. Use the chill bar regardless....it helps to keep tension on the film as it cools down, too. It's just a heat-sink.

 

[Stacey K]

I think you should create a light gray outline and paint them! I love the look of the brush stokes on the black. Can you back it with tag board to make it more stiff? Not sure if that would help the laminate wave or not.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

Ugh, he looks wholly unimpressed by your first attempt! Also looks like a much stiffer laminate than something for vinyl?
As far as hand lettering goes, you could always print, then paint over the lettering, add the base lines and defects you see there...

That is an image of him holding one of the original posters. Note they are hand painted. No waves in them. They do have a lot of curl, though.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

I think you should create a light gray outline and paint them! I love the look of the brush stokes on the black. Can you back it with tag board to make it more stiff? Not sure if that would help the laminate wave or not.

I could probably paint them, but it is something I have never done before. I also despise painting. Granted it was commercial painting I did before, not signs, but still. Bad memories. I once dropped a gallon of paint in someone's carpeted living room. We had plastic everywhere but a whole gallon will find a gap.
They need to be encapsulated, so I do not think I can use a backer, or can I?

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

You are going down the right path. Either run the same temp but faster or reduce the temp and run the same temperature. Use the chill bar regardless....it helps to keep tension on the film as it cools down, too. It's just a heat-sink.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[JBurton]

I think you should create a light gray outline and paint them! I love the look of the brush stokes on the black. Can you back it with tag board to make it more stiff? Not sure if that would help the laminate wave or not.

Even better, it's not like he'll care if it isn't perfect, in fact that's why he likes his old ones...

 

[victor bogdanov]

I love the look of the brush stokes on the black.

Could easily add brush stroke effect to the print in photoshop

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

Could easily add brush stroke effect to the print in photoshop

Not sure why I didn't think of that. I will do that for the reprints. Thanks! He is going to be stoked.

 

[Stacey K]

I could probably paint them, but it is something I have never done before. I also despise painting. Granted it was commercial painting I did before, not signs, but still. Bad memories. I once dropped a gallon of paint in someone's carpeted living room. We had plastic everywhere but a whole gallon will find a gap.
They need to be encapsulated, so I do not think I can use a backer, or can I?

That story makes me want to cry...paint on the LR carpet.

I often laminate 2 sheets of paper in my little laminator, you could try a smaller sheet and see what happens?

 

[Precision]

Looks like a few things. Could be mismatched materials. I am not familiar with either product. Is this a calendared with a cast material. Or this match of materials is just that cheap.

I hope you charged double, so you can pay for the second round of prints. Especially with these types of projects, it's almost like when your trying to help, you hurt yourself, and the client is still annoyed. LOL! Good luck.