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Epson 9890 a good canvas printer?

Greggie

New Member
Hi,

I am looking to buy this month a canvas printer. Did some research and there are several different brands who offer a good quality printer, such as HP, Epson and Canon. I like the new Epson 9890, it is a 11 channel printer, 8 colors and 3 different blacks. What do you guys think, is this a good one, or is there a better one?
Thanks,

Greg
 

artbot

New Member
i don't know how much i can help you but i can tell you a bit about canvas printing. i'm sure there are a lot of guys here that have much more experience. i'd say if you are getting the 9890 for canvas, it's a bit too much machine for just canvas. canvas at medium resolution looks almost identical to high resolution because of all the textural shadowing and dot gain. also the dmax can be sometimes lost on canvas so a machine that is searching for that last 10% of image quality will not be able to reflect it's capabilities in canvas.

so...the 9890, from what i know would be great for canvas, but of course it's main use will be printing large format photography and giclee reproduction. i'm not sure why they make a k3 (9890) and an hdr (9900) seems like the hdr inks do everything that the k3 does and more.

also, i wish i could find the page, but a lab did a very very extensive study on ink consumption comparing the 9900 to the ipf8300. the epson, when printing used from 40-70% more ink in all categories. that's not to mention all the cleaning cycles and head purging everytime you turn on the machine. i'd imagine per square foot, it's should be higher. so not so great a machine if you are planning on printing every now and then.

i think it is a better machine. kind of the bmw of the 44" range. very smooth quiet machine. i'm split between the 9900 and the ipf8300 for my next printer. the canon would have it if it had a better sheet loading set up (loads from the front by way of firmware...booo. that's insane. you can jam a 5' piece of paper into the front. but then the epson loads from the "top" and shoots the print southward. very strange. basically a good set up for a tiny 22x30 piece of art paper. but not for flatbed sheet feeding.)

in the end, i'd look at the canon before making a decision (and the hp z3200, $2500! @ 44"). a printer is supposed to make you money. the canon can be bought for $3300 (canon is dumping them to steal market share). it comes with 12 330ml carts, and all the software you'll need for basic ripping. and it will over time "make" you more money with less head clogging head aches. and as far as head aches. that epson's dx5 head will be periodically crashing into that canvas when it buckles. if the head is damaged it will cost $850. a damaged canon head can be replaced for $450. with no technician needed. also the canon is insanely faster. and remember with estimating speed comparisons, you will probably be printing at 720x720 8 or 16 pass (maybe 1400 x 1400, never 2800). any more resolution will not be evident on canvas. on and one more up for the canon, it's photo black and matte black are installed, not switched by a function. so you could switch between photo paper and canvas on the fly.
 

Greggie

New Member
I will also use it for color and black/white photos. If I am right, the Epson 9890 has a better ink system =then the older 9900 (less waste). Also the HPz3200 and the Canon ipf8300 are both 12 color printers and the Epson is a 8 color and 3 blacks, what makes a 11 color printer. Again close the same. The question is who has the best print quality?
Thanks,

Greg
 

artbot

New Member
actually the consensus is that the HP has the most attractive print. but seems to be the least sturdy of the machines. and it's has 200 year longevity testing results by wilhelm twice the other printers. and the least bronzing due to it's "gloss enhancing" clear ink. not to mention built in spec'.

as for calling "colors". in my opinion diluted versions of the same color shouldn't be called colors like light grey and light light grey. the canon had blue red orange and green along with the usual cmyk lmlc and greys. the hp skips cyan uses blue, but has lc still (i think). as for the best color it seems to be a toss up. canon seems to always be described as best for lighter gentler midtones and lights (something i'm more interested in) and the epson has better darks. as for blazing insane vibrant color? i think they all do. then it goes onto arguments of which greens, blues and reds are the best. don't remember the results but it usually comes to a tie each printer taking some points. and the 9890 and 9900 are the same age. are you thinking about the 9880?

also, the epson us supposed to have a slight advantage with a smoother dither. but that competition is only observable with a loop. nothing a client could see.

it's a really really tough call. i've been using epson, roland, and mimaki, and two encads in my experience. canon is an unknown animal. after reading 100's of posts on the luminous-landscape website it seems that canon is stealing the show for the all around winner.
 

Greggie

New Member
I was thinking the 9890 with Postscrips and the Spectroproofing. Best prices I found Canon ipf8300 for $3800, the Epson 9890 for $4500 and the HP z3200 for $4250. Is it worth to pay more for a PS version?
Thanks,

Greg
 

artbot

New Member
if you are just printing tifs (photos, artwork, no copy. occasional copy/text no big deal) the postscript is not needed. the z3200 is $2700-2500 from many discount suppliers. it doesn't come with much ink (about enough to print 20-30 prints). and spectroproofing on the epson is like $9-11k right? canon ipf8300 ($3300 from lexjet).
 

Greggie

New Member
You can buy a Epson 9890 with Spectroproofing for about $4500. It is the price of ink what makes it expensive or you must go with non-oem ink.
Thanks,

Greg
 

artbot

New Member
not sure that's right. epson sells a separate xrite for $2500,

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Pro/SeriesStylusPro78909890/Options.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

"SpectroProofer® 44" (SP9890 only)
High performance in-line spectrophotometer developed jointly with X-rite®. Allows for automated color measurement directly within the printer itself. Simple installation process. Both black and white interchangeable backing plates included. Built-in print dryer to accelerate the dry-down and reading process. Compatible only with third-party RIP's and workflows.
Part Number: SPECTRO44 Price: $2,495.00
"


that option is standard equipment on the 9900 proofing edition. there the standard, the designer, and the proofing.

here's a link to the 9900 proofing edition. (haven't seen a 9890 proofing edition)

http://www.andvre.com/epson-stylus-pro-7900-9900-proofing-edition.html
 

iladi

New Member
i have a 9700 epson for about 1 month. it is similar to 9900, but only 4 colors. impresions so far: the loading system is beautifull. top loading is very easy both for rols and for sheets. last week i've done a 1700 A1 sheet job with no hastle. there is no 8 or 16 pass for the printer. head is 360 dpi. so for 720 dpi is 2 pass, 4 for 1440. that is it. both with driver and wasatch. speed is ok, about 12 sqm per hour at 720. i have printed on canvas at this speed with very good results. and here is the best part: you can buy refillable carts. macroenter has both refillable cartridges and image specialists inks for sale (they are selling epson HDR compatible ink). i'm using the carts and it is OK, are working very well. ink consumption is lower then printer estimates. with refil i can see the ink level and it is way higher the printer estimation. i can not tell if wasatch consumption estimation is better althou rip knows the drop sizes of the printer (not like my mutoh or roland :( ). clogging: yes there is. from time to time. not bad but it is there a few lines missing sometimes. i was canceling the auto head cleanig to avoid ink waste so, from time to time i have to print a nozzle check, not a big deal. a pain in the %^$ is also the maintenance tank, but , fortunately there is a resetter for it too.
so, you may consider 9700 as a canvas printer. maybe i am wrong but i can not see the point of 11 or 12 color printers. a complete refuel for ipf 8300 is as much as a very good printer, about 3000 euros. i cannot belive that for such amount of money you can print waaaayyy beter then a good old 4 or 6 colors printer. i am almost shure that in case of a normal photo you can NOT take FULL advantage of extra green, orange etc. i think is mainly a method of buying more and more ink. but is just my opinion.

PS don't be fooled by the fact it is marked as a CAD/GIS printer. black sare also auto swichable for the new epsons.
 
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artbot

New Member
i'd do some calling around with the 9890. the only thing i can find that the designer edition comes with is postscript and and efi rip. the spectroproofer is optional in every single spec sheet i've seen. as far as the spec' being part of the machine, with the hp, it's free/standard. but if you are going to have to pay extra for it. get a stand alone proofer. that way you can be printing and creating profiles (if need be) simlultaneously.

as for the orange and green. i had a roland running hexachrome (cmyllmlcog) and the orange and green did produce better greens and warm tones. the downfall for most piezo printers, to me, has been bad reds and bad blues. i'd be much more interested in a printer runnig red and blue ink than orange and green. with the advent of all these different channels the gamut usually brings you 20% more. that's great because that's the 20% you will spend 30 minutes here and there unsuccessfully trying to hit. as for ink usage, the theory is (and it was supported by some lab tests i read recently) that more channels reduces ink consumption. now the printer can lightly spritz say green and light gray ink to produce a color instead of yellow, lc, black, and a little magenta to neutralize the same green...
 

Greggie

New Member
I think too, that if you buy the 9890 designers edition, you can install a spectro spoofer on it. So that is always an option what I can buy later if needed. What is smerter to buy, the Postscript version or the no postscript version? Do you print straight from Photoshop, or is it smarter to use RIP software / Onxy Postershop or Wasatch? Or what setup is the best?
Thanks,

Greg
 

artbot

New Member
if you are printing things with text very often, than postscript. but for art/photography it's not needed.

i'd post the rip software question on the luminous landscape website. there you will find hundreds of members that own this and other epson printers. spend too much time reading discussions comparing the epson to the canon on that website and you will probably want to get the canon instead. too many epson veteran pro photography shops going away from epson to be ignored.
 
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